Intercessory prayer is pointless
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07-09-2017, 03:31 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(07-09-2017 03:23 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(07-09-2017 03:11 PM)morondog Wrote:  You're determined to ascribe some mystic meaning to shit Rolleyes

Why should anyone care about these vague absolutes? What do you gain from religion, especially this abstract one you seem to be trying to invent? What's the attraction of all the woo?

My read is they're trying to ground the fundamental abstract principles common to at least the major religions with less abstract, more concretely familiar ideas. I like the approach better than the academic one the NasalKid is trying. It's, well, more approachable. This unique grounding has new ridiculously interesting aspects and implications to it. ... Do we think this is a troll? I don't think this is a troll.

The funny thing is, they are not more concrete. It's just the same thing. More complex? certainly.
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07-09-2017, 03:34 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(07-09-2017 03:25 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(07-09-2017 03:23 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  My read is they're trying to ground the fundamental abstract principles common to at least the major religions with less abstract, more concretely familiar ideas. I like the approach better than the academic one the NasalKid is trying. It's, well, more approachable. This unique grounding has new ridiculously interesting aspects and implications to it. ... Do we think this is a troll? I don't think this is a troll.

I don't think troll... I do think mystic. Can't stand mystics Drinking Beverage Bloody posers.

What if they were mystics on bath salts? Not posing then. Ha! Got you.

#sigh
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07-09-2017, 03:37 PM (This post was last modified: 07-09-2017 03:54 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(07-09-2017 03:31 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  
(07-09-2017 03:23 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  My read is they're trying to ground the fundamental abstract principles common to at least the major religions with less abstract, more concretely familiar ideas. I like the approach better than the academic one the NasalKid is trying. It's, well, more approachable. This unique grounding has new ridiculously interesting aspects and implications to it. ... Do we think this is a troll? I don't think this is a troll.

The funny thing is, they are not more concrete. It's just the same thing. More complex? certainly.

More familiar. Not more concrete, more concretely familiar. That's what I mean, more concretely familiar.

#sigh
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07-09-2017, 03:44 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(07-09-2017 03:37 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(07-09-2017 03:31 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  The funny thing is, they are not more concrete. It's just the same thing. More complex? certainly.

More familiar. Not more concrete, more familiar. That's what I mean, more familiar.
More familiar if you look for diversity, less familiar if you look for unity, that's how I see it.
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07-09-2017, 03:48 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(07-09-2017 03:44 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  
(07-09-2017 03:37 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  More familiar. Not more concrete, more familiar. That's what I mean, more familiar.
More familiar if you look for diversity, less familiar if you look for unity, that's how I see it.

Why is that? I'm just going with my gut here.

#sigh
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07-09-2017, 03:52 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(07-09-2017 03:48 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(07-09-2017 03:44 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  More familiar if you look for diversity, less familiar if you look for unity, that's how I see it.

Why is that? I'm just going with my gut here.

Ah. You're saying we lose our sense of commonality because we are trained (socially/genetically/evolutionary/financially) to identify differences for our survival which inevitably led to avarice and greed and further discrimination and discernment for reinforcement. Think I could go along with that.

#sigh
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07-09-2017, 04:02 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(07-09-2017 03:48 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Why is that? I'm just going with my gut here.

I guess your gut is where we want to get, but we won't. There is the incompleteness theorem, there are always problems when you seek diversity. Is there any diversity without a problem?
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07-09-2017, 04:33 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(07-09-2017 03:03 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  A. Science still has a few decades or even centuries to be counted among religions, as I see it.

B. But here's how I'd picture the future religion:
True, energy will be the notion of unformed : the absolute.
True, matter will be considered as the manifestation of energy : creation
True, death will be the return to energy, the absolute : salvation
False, living will be the Hell : damnation

C. Science would need to find its way of dying before death, I guess. That might be somewhere in neuroscience where the scientific way of quiescence of mind is found, once it's there, it'd need to give us a morality to help us reach it, and it will be done.

D. I personally prefer to stick to old-school religions and not risk waiting for science.

A. Science will never be a religion, though it's discoveries have certainly replaced many religious perspectives. There is simply no reason for a religious or mystical overlay to science. They are decidedly unscientific.

B. Your God (the Absolute so called) comes out of my wall sockets. That should cause you some cognitive dissonance.

C. The Sufi doctrine of "dying before your death" depends on a highly questionable assumption about the nature of the self. I think the whole commanding self / true self dichotomy is false and dangerous.

D. Get back to me in another 20 years, and let me know if you still think the same.
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07-09-2017, 04:35 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(06-09-2017 08:41 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  I just did a quick research about the status of non-Jews is Judaism, and I think what you said is not quite accurate, non-Jews must adhere to Seven Laws of Noah to be counted among the righteous.

1. Do not deny God.
2. Do not blaspheme God.
3. Do not murder.
4. Do not engage in illicit sexual relations.
5. Do not steal.
6. Do not eat from a live animal.
7. Establish courts/legal system to ensure obedience to said laws.

So belief in God and at least part of his book (the above commandments) are ultimately necessary, as I understand it.

Aliza, would you please inform me about the first commandment "Do not deny God"?. Is this a mistranslation? Does it actually say "Do not worship idols", as you said?
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07-09-2017, 04:42 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(07-09-2017 04:33 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  There is simply no reason for a religious or mystical overlay to science. They are decidedly unscientific.
Of course they are unscientific. All religions were deemed "unreligious" within the context they were born.

(07-09-2017 04:33 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  B. Your God (the Absolute so called) comes out of my wall sockets. That should cause you some cognitive dissonance.
My absolute comes out of pretty much everything. Interestingly, everything comes out of it.

Quote:I think the whole commanding self / true self dichotomy is false and dangerous.
That's what makes it interesting.

Quote:D. Get back to me in another 20 years, and let me know if you still think the same.
Of course I won't. I'm just enjoying what I'm right now. Do you think there is a problem about it? Give me a word of wisdom.
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