Intercessory prayer is pointless
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01-09-2017, 02:29 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
If prayer did work ---

That would make God like a fireman who goes about lighting fires so he can put them back out and look like a hero.....


In common parlance - a fuckhead.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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01-09-2017, 02:48 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(01-09-2017 02:16 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(01-09-2017 01:09 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  The more interesting aspect to me is that while intercessory prayer has no foundational basis, intracessory prayer does appear to.
Placebo effect I guess.

Yes, but not something which should be dismissed casually.

Placebos often work because people don't know they are getting one. But what happens if you know you are getting a placebo?

The power of the placebo effect - Treating yourself with your mind is possible, but there is more to it than positive thinking.

A 2014 study led by Kaptchuk and published in Science Translational Medicine explored this by testing how people reacted to migraine pain medication. One group took a migraine drug labeled with the drug's name, another took a placebo labeled "placebo," and a third group took nothing. The researchers discovered that the placebo was 50% as effective as the real drug to reduce pain after a migraine attack.

The researchers speculated that a driving force beyond this reaction was the simple act of taking a pill. "People associate the ritual of taking medicine as a positive healing effect," says Kaptchuk. "Even if they know it's not medicine, the action itself can stimulate the brain into thinking the body is being healed."

#sigh
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01-09-2017, 02:54 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(01-09-2017 02:48 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(01-09-2017 02:16 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Placebo effect I guess.

Yes, but not something which should be dismissed casually.

Placebos often work because people don't know they are getting one. But what happens if you know you are getting a placebo?

The power of the placebo effect - Treating yourself with your mind is possible, but there is more to it than positive thinking.

A 2014 study led by Kaptchuk and published in Science Translational Medicine explored this by testing how people reacted to migraine pain medication. One group took a migraine drug labeled with the drug's name, another took a placebo labeled "placebo," and a third group took nothing. The researchers discovered that the placebo was 50% as effective as the real drug to reduce pain after a migraine attack.

The researchers speculated that a driving force beyond this reaction was the simple act of taking a pill. "People associate the ritual of taking medicine as a positive healing effect," says Kaptchuk. "Even if they know it's not medicine, the action itself can stimulate the brain into thinking the body is being healed."

I think they missed what really happened there...

People expect to be lied to. So when they get a pill marked "placebo" they assume it's a trick - and they are getting the real drug.

So it's simply placebo effect and not placebo placebo effect....

Smartass

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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01-09-2017, 03:00 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(01-09-2017 12:54 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  And that's it. There's no magical fourth option that both has prayer working and God not being a massive twat.

Throttle back, I'm still trying to worship Gwyneth Paltrow...

Once the attributes become known it becomes easy to dismiss the attributes and their moral imperative. The problem with dualities is that there is always another side, leaving me only to consider the only the fourth rather than the first three, thus victory by faith alone.

What was the question? Oh yeah, if you're praying for change, you're looking for remedial faith next door.

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01-09-2017, 03:01 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(01-09-2017 02:54 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  So it's simply placebo effect and not placebo placebo effect....

My faith always works because I have a razor blade. Hobo

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01-09-2017, 03:03 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(01-09-2017 02:54 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(01-09-2017 02:48 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Yes, but not something which should be dismissed casually.

Placebos often work because people don't know they are getting one. But what happens if you know you are getting a placebo?

The power of the placebo effect - Treating yourself with your mind is possible, but there is more to it than positive thinking.

A 2014 study led by Kaptchuk and published in Science Translational Medicine explored this by testing how people reacted to migraine pain medication. One group took a migraine drug labeled with the drug's name, another took a placebo labeled "placebo," and a third group took nothing. The researchers discovered that the placebo was 50% as effective as the real drug to reduce pain after a migraine attack.

The researchers speculated that a driving force beyond this reaction was the simple act of taking a pill. "People associate the ritual of taking medicine as a positive healing effect," says Kaptchuk. "Even if they know it's not medicine, the action itself can stimulate the brain into thinking the body is being healed."

I think they missed what really happened there...

People expect to be lied to. So when they get a pill marked "placebo" they assume it's a trick - and they are getting the real drug.

So it's simply placebo effect and not placebo placebo effect....

Smartass

Hehe. That's a rather fiendishly clever explanation. I genuinely think it could be that. That or they don't know what the word "Placebo" means Weeping

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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01-09-2017, 04:01 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(01-09-2017 01:59 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  If one loses his family in a seemingly real dream, he might be grateful about the bad dream after waking up, no matter how bad it was, it has made him realize how important his family is for him.

[Image: giphy.gif]

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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01-09-2017, 04:08 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(01-09-2017 04:01 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(01-09-2017 01:59 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  If one loses his family in a seemingly real dream, he might be grateful about the bad dream after waking up, no matter how bad it was, it has made him realize how important his family is for him.

[Image: giphy.gif]

I wonder who stands to be more injured, the dog when it leaps off the hamster wheel or the Christee when the veil is lifted? Consider

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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01-09-2017, 04:22 PM (This post was last modified: 01-09-2017 04:40 PM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(01-09-2017 01:59 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  I think your argument holds if we presume there is actually a problem. Considering that Judo-Christian religions emphasis on the unreality of this world and its pain and pleasure, I think it's reasonable to assume that the flood is not a real problem within the context of Judo-Christian religions.

If one loses his family in a seemingly real dream, he might be grateful about the bad dream after waking up, no matter how bad it was, it has made him realize how important his family is for him.

So I think intercessory prayer within Judo-Christian religions can be understood as a means of helping believers to surrender, yet the threat is not real, it's merely a show to help them grow in terms of surrendering to their God.

Your God concept is not worthy of worship. This attempt at apologetics is reality-denying in the worst sense, because it dehumanizes people by belittling their very real suffering.

There is no honor or honesty in "surrendering" to an evil God.
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01-09-2017, 04:42 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(01-09-2017 01:59 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  I think your argument holds if we presume there is actually a problem. Considering that Judo-Christian religions emphasis on the unreality of this world and its pain and pleasure, I think it's reasonable to assume that the flood is not a real problem within the context of Judo-Christian religions.

If one loses his family in a seemingly real dream, he might be grateful about the bad dream after waking up, no matter how bad it was, it has made him realize how important his family is for him.

So I think intercessory prayer within Judo-Christian religions can be understood as a means of helping believers to surrender, yet the threat is not real, it's merely a show to help them grow in terms of surrendering to their God.

Dodgy

That term is like nails down a chalk board to me.
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