Intercessory prayer is pointless
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13-09-2017, 04:37 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
There's no god. Of course prayer is useless.

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13-09-2017, 05:01 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(13-09-2017 04:34 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  God decides who will be the elect and who will not. God, the great potter makes some vessels to honor and some to dishonor. Not according to your acys, but to God's unsearchable and incomprehensible whimsy.

Does it get more nihilistic and meaningless than Christian theology? When I hear some Christian bleating on about atheism and no meaning in life with atheism, I immediately think of Romans 9. Romans 9, there is no more nihilistic and savage philosophy on Earth than the theology in this chapter of the New Testament.

> So, I got out my Bible and read Romans, Chapter 9. It is nothing more than the babblings of a disordered mind. Dodgy
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13-09-2017, 08:40 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(13-09-2017 05:01 PM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  
(13-09-2017 04:34 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  God decides who will be the elect and who will not. God, the great potter makes some vessels to honor and some to dishonor. Not according to your acys, but to God's unsearchable and incomprehensible whimsy.

Does it get more nihilistic and meaningless than Christian theology? When I hear some Christian bleating on about atheism and no meaning in life with atheism, I immediately think of Romans 9. Romans 9, there is no more nihilistic and savage philosophy on Earth than the theology in this chapter of the New Testament.

> So, I got out my Bible and read Romans, Chapter 9. It is nothing more than the babblings of a disordered mind. Dodgy

Who the fuck's supposed to be talking there? Paul? Is that the same Paul who wrote Revelations? Poor bastards clearly gone mad. As far as nihilism in the Bibble, that goes to Job.

"In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil." Every time I read that I hear in my head, "And there came a dark and stormy night." Job was the OG nihilist. Just another one of many parables the Christians misread. I should go check the Jews read on that very very very old parable. I think it might've been the first parable.

#sigh
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13-09-2017, 09:12 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
An analogy about nihilism:

It's a little like me asking, "What is the distance of point X?"

The question doesn't make sense. Distance requires another point. The distance is dependent on what this other point is.

So I reject the question. But I'm not saying "X has no distance from anything". What I'm saying is that it's undefined. It neither has some distance, nor no distance. It's just part of a function missing a parameter.

In the analogy, the missing extra point Y is the observer who provides the meaning to X. On its own, X has neither objective "meaning", nor objective "no meaning". It's just an incomplete question.

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13-09-2017, 11:43 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
Josephus states in his "Antiquities Of The Jews" that the Essenes held that God had predestined all things. And the Dead Sea Scrolls confirm that. Paul accepts that idea, and his theology is based on that idea. Then all that happens is God's doing. We have no free will. Which Augustine, after spending 40 years trying to save the concept of free will had to finally give up. Many theologians had to accept that, most notably Luther and Calvin. Today, resolving this theological problem remains a major project among theologians to this day. The arguments between the incompatibilists and compatibilists continues unabated.

The whole thing points to some of the biggest weaknesses for the God concept. If God predetermines all that happens,we have no free will and are not responsible for the evil we do. God is responsible. Luther in his "Bandage Of The Will" admits this plainly, his whole book examines the supposed revelations of the Bible and admits it.

And his out is to in the end admit that free will is impossible, all evil is God's doing, and that we can only say, God is incomprehensible. Calvin is no better but not as intellectually honest about it, but in the end, takes the same dodge. God is incomprehensible. Augustine also openly admitted it a few times he struggled with these sorts of issues.

So rather that point out that the God concepts, based on the concept that the New testament and Paul's writings are inspired by God, logic and reason are abandoned, sacrificed as it were on the altar of God's incomprehensible inscrutability. This thread was dealing with the subject of nihilism, and when one understands this, it is obvious that intellectual nihilism is the heart and soul of Christianity and the God concept dogmas of Paul.

Romans 11:33
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

When I shake my ignore file, I can hear them buzzing!

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14-09-2017, 12:30 AM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(13-09-2017 08:36 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  To me, nihilism is just the observation that "meaning" requires a subjective evaluation. Any meaning something has will always be "meaning to...". It's not a well-defined, inherent property of reality that can be measured. This is not saying nothing has any meaning. It's just incorrect, in my opinion, to refer to meaning as objective. It's a contradiction of language. You can't tell someone what something means to them.

To make that it that way, we'd have to define "meaning(X) = {Yes if X is [some subset of life forms]; No otherwise}.

I don't see what the point of that is, and it would be redefining a word just to thwart nihilism, and just among the group of people who accept that definition.

The debate between internalism and externalism has been raging a long time. It doesn't seem all that obvious to me or Putnam.

#sigh
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17-09-2017, 12:56 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(13-09-2017 08:40 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(13-09-2017 05:01 PM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  > So, I got out my Bible and read Romans, Chapter 9. It is nothing more than the babblings of a disordered mind. Dodgy

Who the fuck's supposed to be talking there? Paul? Is that the same Paul who wrote Revelations?
I trust not, it was the Apostle John to whom The Revelation to John is attributed.

But no matter, determining the authorship of books of the Bible is a bit of a black art, and fraught with uncertainty. Each book stands on the (lack of) merits of its own content in any event.

Do carry on.
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