Intercessory prayer is pointless
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01-09-2017, 11:28 PM (This post was last modified: 01-09-2017 11:34 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(01-09-2017 07:52 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  I think because suicide is the ultimate ingratitude towards the great gift of life, which is the means for a believer to strive towards his God within the context of Judeo-Christian religions.

Suicide is the only truly inalienable right you have. You relinguish it for the wrong reason, by which I mean you relinguish it without reason, without proper consideration.

#sigh
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01-09-2017, 11:32 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(01-09-2017 11:21 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  The sacred texts are allusive and metaphorical but there is nothing ambiguous about them. Don't matter which sacred text we're talking about, they're all just different flavors of the principle of reciprocity - Don't Be A Dick. That's it, just don't be a dick. That's the only commandment. Are you a dick, nosferatu323? You seem like you might be a dick.
I take your advice.

But I genuinely think sacred text are very ambiguous. The existence of vastly different interpretations of the same text is an evidence to support it, I think.

I don't really get it, "allusive and metaphorical but not ambiguous"? That doesn't sound right to me.
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01-09-2017, 11:36 PM (This post was last modified: 01-09-2017 11:47 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(01-09-2017 11:32 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  
(01-09-2017 11:21 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  The sacred texts are allusive and metaphorical but there is nothing ambiguous about them. Don't matter which sacred text we're talking about, they're all just different flavors of the principle of reciprocity - Don't Be A Dick. That's it, just don't be a dick. That's the only commandment. Are you a dick, nosferatu323? You seem like you might be a dick.
I take your advice.

But I genuinely think sacred text are very ambiguous. The existence of vastly different interpretations of the same text is an evidence to support it, I think.

I don't really get it, "allusive and metaphorical but not ambiguous"? That doesn't sound right to me.

I agree, gimme a sec ... something's thinking.

The parable of the fall of man for example, which is shared by almost all the different "my interpretation is better than your interpretation, nah nah boo boo". The fundamental lesson of that parable is the price man paid to become God. The knowledge of the distinction of good from evil comes with a burden and cost. And whether we are willing to assume it or not, Grampa's debt is due on us. Small price to pay to be a God I'd say, chip chip cheery cheeks. I invite you to provide me with an ambiguous interpretation.

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01-09-2017, 11:50 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(01-09-2017 11:28 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(01-09-2017 07:52 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  I think because suicide is the ultimate ingratitude towards the great gift of life, which is the means for a believer to strive towards his God within the context of Judeo-Christian religions.

Suicide is the only truly inalienable right you have. You relinguish it for the wrong reason, by which I mean you relinguish it without reason, without proper consideration.

I think your point is valid without assuming a creator God who is the owner of everything. But in the context of Christianity, no one truly owns anything except God, even their bodies, since the bodies are given to them by the creator. So no one has any rights, except those that are given to them by God. Even those rights are not truly "their rights", they are just "given rights".

If we assume that the supposed God is all-wise, I think it makes sense.
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01-09-2017, 11:55 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(01-09-2017 11:50 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  
(01-09-2017 11:28 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Suicide is the only truly inalienable right you have. You relinguish it for the wrong reason, by which I mean you relinguish it without reason, without proper consideration.

I think your point is valid without assuming a creator God who is the owner of everything. But in the context of Christianity, no one truly owns anything except God, even their bodies, since the bodies are given to them by the creator. So no one has any rights, except those that are given to them by God. Even those rights are not truly "their rights", they are just "given rights".

If we assume that the supposed God is all-wise, I think it makes sense.

I don't think many Christians properly appreciate the full implications of "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." It is fundamentally a statement of the divinity of Man. That is the main point of Christianity. Man is God. God is Man. I AM. ... Now act like it. I feel kinda sorta ashamed for us that they had to shred a lot of papyrus to try and tell us how to do that.

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01-09-2017, 11:56 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(01-09-2017 11:36 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  The parable of the fall of man for example, which is shared by almost all the different "my interpretation is better than your interpretation, nah nah boo boo". The fundamental lesson of that parable is the price man paid to become God. The knowledge of the distinction of good from evil comes with a burden and cost. And whether we are willing to assume it or not, Grampa's debt is due on us. Small price to pay to be a God I'd say, chip chip cheery cheeks. I invite you to provide me with an ambiguous interpretation.

Interpretations are not usually ambiguous, but the mere existence of multiple interpretations show that something is ambiguous in the original story. I think if I can give you a different interpretation, it shows that the original story is ambiguous, wouldn't it?
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01-09-2017, 11:59 PM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(01-09-2017 11:56 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  
(01-09-2017 11:36 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  The parable of the fall of man for example, which is shared by almost all the different "my interpretation is better than your interpretation, nah nah boo boo". The fundamental lesson of that parable is the price man paid to become God. The knowledge of the distinction of good from evil comes with a burden and cost. And whether we are willing to assume it or not, Grampa's debt is due on us. Small price to pay to be a God I'd say, chip chip cheery cheeks. I invite you to provide me with an ambiguous interpretation.

Interpretations are not usually ambiguous, but the mere existence of multiple interpretations show that something is ambiguous in the original story. I think if I can give you a different interpretation, it shows that the original story is ambiguous, wouldn't it?

Dunno. Won't stipulate to that. But I want to see your interpretation. Yes

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02-09-2017, 12:01 AM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(01-09-2017 11:55 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(01-09-2017 11:50 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  I think your point is valid without assuming a creator God who is the owner of everything. But in the context of Christianity, no one truly owns anything except God, even their bodies, since the bodies are given to them by the creator. So no one has any rights, except those that are given to them by God. Even those rights are not truly "their rights", they are just "given rights".

If we assume that the supposed God is all-wise, I think it makes sense.

I don't think many Christians properly appreciate the full implications of "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." It is fundamentally a statement of the divinity of Man. That is the main point of Christianity. Man is God. God is Man. I AM.

They are still "Sons of God", their divinity is given to them, it's not something they posses merely by virtue of their existence, like the Father.

Within the context of Christianity, you are not God, you can be. That's what makes you a "Son" and not the "Father". That's how I understand the premise of Christianity about the divinity of Man.
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02-09-2017, 12:14 AM (This post was last modified: 02-09-2017 12:28 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(02-09-2017 12:01 AM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  
(01-09-2017 11:55 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I don't think many Christians properly appreciate the full implications of "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." It is fundamentally a statement of the divinity of Man. That is the main point of Christianity. Man is God. God is Man. I AM.

They are still "Sons of God", their divinity is given to them, it's not something they posses merely by virtue of their existence, like the Father.

Within the context of Christianity, you are not God, you can be. That's what makes you a "Son" and not the "Father". That's how I understand the premise of Christianity about the divinity of Man.

My understanding of the Trinity is that your statement contradicts it. That's how I understand the premise of the Trinity. Are you sure you know what Christianity entails? Were you properly trained or are you just trying to make this shit up as you go along? I'll play either way. Just wanna know how to shift my posture.

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02-09-2017, 12:38 AM
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(01-09-2017 11:59 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(01-09-2017 11:56 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  Interpretations are not usually ambiguous, but the mere existence of multiple interpretations show that something is ambiguous in the original story. I think if I can give you a different interpretation, it shows that the original story is ambiguous, wouldn't it?

Dunno. Won't stipulate to that. But I want to see your interpretation. Yes

I actually agree with most of what you said, here is how I'd put my interpretation.

Note: I think the characters in sacred texts should not be understood as real persons, everything should be understood as metaphors, I think. All the characters denote something that reside in all of us, including Adam.

The apple from the tree of knowledge denotes our desire to seek knowledge of truth by relying on our own existence. A natural consequence of this desire is the independent BUT limited existence, the limitation is a logical necessity for multiple existences to appear, an unlimited existence cannot be two, it's always one. Attaining this individual, independent BUT limited existence is described as the fall of Man and the cause of his agony.

The Man chooses to attain this individual existence and seek the truth for himself, yet suffering is all that he gains, God sends guides to tell him that he is in the wrong path, those who obey the command and return to the Father and give up their quest of knowledge, prosperity and truth and surrender their limited existence to him, abide in the unlimited existence of the father, becoming a Son. This is described as Heaven.

Some choose to keep their independent but limited existence, and continue their search for prosperity and knowledge. Those will never join the father, eternally seeking what they can only attain by returning to the father. But they prefer to remain individual. This is described as Hell.
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