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17-01-2015, 06:56 PM
Interesting Article
http://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/0509042.pdf
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17-01-2015, 07:38 PM
RE: Interesting Article
(17-01-2015 06:56 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  http://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/0509042.pdf

A PDF download with no discription of what it is.
Interesting doesn't cut it.
Facepalm
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17-01-2015, 09:23 PM
RE: Interesting Article
(17-01-2015 06:56 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  http://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/0509042.pdf



Quantum mechanics needs no consciousness (and the other way around)

"In conclusion, the available evidence does not indicate that the observer’s explicit phenomenal representation about the outcome of a measurement plays a role
in collapsing the wave function. We also suggest that the observer does not serve a more fundamental function in quantum mechanics than that in the classical theory. Thus, the idea that by mere observation the experimenter creates physical reality is not viable. This supports Wigner’s opinion in his later years and promises to fulfill his hopes––that we “will not embrace solipsism”
and “will let us admit that the world really exists”.
Perhaps equally importantly, we can add our own hope that the rejection of the role of consciousness in quantum mechanics will also lead us to re-evaluate the proposals that quantum mechanics is vital for explaining the consciousness. Having these two deep mysteries disentangled one from the other might be an important step forward towards understanding better either of them."

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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19-01-2015, 09:17 AM
RE: Interesting Article
(17-01-2015 06:56 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  http://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/0509042.pdf

I believe I read this not too long ago. It's really interesting. I do believe they are at the heels of finding light in three states instead of two. I have been saying this for the last few years--light is not just particle and wave, but particle/wave and consciousness. Just as space and time are space/time, relative to each other, so is particle and wave in this relative position.

Quote from the PDF:

"The argument is therefore made that the wave function of any superposed photon state or states is always objectively changed within the complex architecture of the eye in a continuous linear process initially for most of the superposed photons, followed by a discontinuous nonlinear collapse process
later for any remaining superposed photons, thereby guaranteeing that only final, measured information is presented to the brain, mind or consciousness. An experiment to be conducted in the near future may enable us to simultaneously resolve the measurement problem and also determine if the linear nature
of quantum mechanics is violated by the perceptual process. "

This gets back to why faith is critical to the mind. All things are the mind, and the mind is three things: Father (Strength / Energy / Light), Mother (Water / Catalyst) and Son (Observer). Oddly enough, the Mother in this is the Spirit / Consciousness. It is the catalyst itself that allows for sight. We would expect this from the interplay between all three. The Bible is the metaphor given to explain all of physics. Faith is the ability to determine what is indeterminate, yet restricted by law (restriction to choice). All things are one mind (that of the Son choosing by individuation).

He then gets to the linear nature of quantum mechanics. If you follow the dot to the 1D line, you know a 2D plane casts a 1D shadow at its edge. Remember, 2D cannot cast a shadow above into 3D. 3D then casts a 2D shadow, with the inability to cast a 4D (Time) shadow above. From here, we move from spatial to temporal as a relative movement. The changing states of the spatial dimension are the shadow of time, possessing two other dimensions (Past and Future). We cannot see those higher dimension, yet know they are there. An aware mind above time would then see down as we see down to the 2D plane. No reason future cannot already be known and determined. This is invariant symmetry. Creatures in that symmetry (unchanging) are then using translational symmetry to change themselves, leaving the whole unchanged. Cycles of repetition. What has happened will happen again.

All of this is orthogonal movement in a linear matrix, or what you would expect from a hologram of information and light. Above time, you have indeterminate probability, or the wave function in superposition. To collapse the shadow of changing states down the dimensions, consciousness must be above that of probable states. This easily shows how the linear symmetries above govern this process by law (restriction). Only some probability can be used. Apart from this, no chaos could be managed with individuation. An unchanging hologram would then be a book read by the mind, allowing for infinite right angles (orthogonal choices) without changing the whole (invariance). Collapse of wave function would then adapt to the invariant changes. You can't make the sun stop shining. You can reflect it's light. Some things are adaptable and transmutable, but energy cannot be changed from energy.

This is the end state of all philosophy. How do you have unity with multiplicity of forms given free will? Law. Overcoming law is love, or the absence of the necessity of restriction, opening the door for more and expanded choice.

Galatians 3

23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

Law restricts the matrix below, but also provides the environment above. Unity from action / reaction (also relative).

Faith is the determination to collapse new and previously unknown wave function. Of course, we rise to new life. Examine history to see how we went to pen and ink to what you are reading now, collapsed from the hard drive of a server. You are served by more than this.
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19-01-2015, 09:21 AM
RE: Interesting Article
(17-01-2015 09:23 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(17-01-2015 06:56 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  http://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/0509042.pdf



Quantum mechanics needs no consciousness (and the other way around)

"In conclusion, the available evidence does not indicate that the observer’s explicit phenomenal representation about the outcome of a measurement plays a role
in collapsing the wave function. We also suggest that the observer does not serve a more fundamental function in quantum mechanics than that in the classical theory. Thus, the idea that by mere observation the experimenter creates physical reality is not viable. This supports Wigner’s opinion in his later years and promises to fulfill his hopes––that we “will not embrace solipsism”
and “will let us admit that the world really exists”.
Perhaps equally importantly, we can add our own hope that the rejection of the role of consciousness in quantum mechanics will also lead us to re-evaluate the proposals that quantum mechanics is vital for explaining the consciousness. Having these two deep mysteries disentangled one from the other might be an important step forward towards understanding better either of them."

If all minds are one, as stated in the Bible and other scriptures from around the world, would it not make more sense that the whole must always be collapsed by the observer? In other words, we exist because we are all one consciousness, divided into individuation.

High state of order with low entropy is Proton Electron in unity. Individuation form the very beginning of the process is governed by law of strong nuclear force (proton / neutron) moving the weak. Initially, one consciousness divided, as we observe in nature with reproduction and expansion of forms from a catalyst.
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19-01-2015, 09:49 AM
RE: Interesting Article
(17-01-2015 06:56 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  http://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/0509042.pdf

I was just considering another analogy here. If we were to create sentient life in a computer, they would eventually realize that the matter around them was not them. How would we describe the box they were in called a computer? If their life-force was pulled (plug from the wall), energy would not be available for transfer of energy/information (formed within), which is what information is (energy). How would we then take them backwards in the image to see our reality? We would robe them in a machine that could then look with eyes into our world instead of theirs. By necessity, we would want to train them to function in our society without harm to our own kind. I assume hints would be given until they realized their own image was a hologram, produced by a universe of complex machines beyond their understanding.

Like a fractal, would they then develop their own virtual worlds, repeating the process? Yes. Probable and rational? Yes. We are repeating this process. This forum is a crude version of what is to come. We are creators, as is our origin consciousness. How long before we enter our own movies as the characters on the screen. Who's to say we aren't already there now?

Information collapse from a hard drive is the same process as our own linear matrix. Infinite fractal.

Susskind on Information being Energy. Heat being information entropy, just as energy has entropy. He is much smarter than us.



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19-01-2015, 10:21 AM
RE: Interesting Article
(19-01-2015 09:21 AM)AlephBet Wrote:  
(17-01-2015 09:23 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Quantum mechanics needs no consciousness (and the other way around)

"In conclusion, the available evidence does not indicate that the observer’s explicit phenomenal representation about the outcome of a measurement plays a role
in collapsing the wave function. We also suggest that the observer does not serve a more fundamental function in quantum mechanics than that in the classical theory. Thus, the idea that by mere observation the experimenter creates physical reality is not viable. This supports Wigner’s opinion in his later years and promises to fulfill his hopes––that we “will not embrace solipsism”
and “will let us admit that the world really exists”.
Perhaps equally importantly, we can add our own hope that the rejection of the role of consciousness in quantum mechanics will also lead us to re-evaluate the proposals that quantum mechanics is vital for explaining the consciousness. Having these two deep mysteries disentangled one from the other might be an important step forward towards understanding better either of them."

If all minds are one, as stated in the Bible and other scriptures ...blah blah blah
Except that they are not one so the rest of your pathetic little ramblings are valueless and can be ignored. The Bible and scriptures are made up stories of no value. You are completely wrong and there is actual testable evidence to show that. Now fuck off.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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19-01-2015, 11:06 AM
RE: Interesting Article
(19-01-2015 10:21 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(19-01-2015 09:21 AM)AlephBet Wrote:  If all minds are one, as stated in the Bible and other scriptures ...blah blah blah
Except that they are not one so the rest of your pathetic little ramblings are valueless and can be ignored. The Bible and scriptures are made up stories of no value. You are completely wrong and there is actual testable evidence to show that. Now fuck off.

You can have water without fish. This is true. You can't have fish without water. Also true. You can't have fish or water without energy as information. Also true. Life force is consciousness. It is the water we all swim in.

See the Leonard Susskind video I posted at 21 minutes. Irreducible complexity in QM means all things are one thing. You can't have a backend or frontend of a computer program without the computer. You can't unplug the cord if you wish the machine to run.

Design repeats, which is your proof it is what it claims.

God kept it simple. The Aleph Bet writes the Word into an image, then shines a light, dispelling darkness. We are a created hologram of energy and light in an orthogonal matrix, just as linear mathematics and the Dirac Equation suggest. No need to deny it. It's evident.

Who gave us the metaphor?
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19-01-2015, 11:13 AM
RE: Interesting Article
(19-01-2015 10:21 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(19-01-2015 09:21 AM)AlephBet Wrote:  If all minds are one, as stated in the Bible and other scriptures ...blah blah blah
Except that they are not one so the rest of your pathetic little ramblings are valueless and can be ignored. The Bible and scriptures are made up stories of no value. You are completely wrong and there is actual testable evidence to show that. Now fuck off.

At 25 minutes, he gives you the key. Energy IS information, just as the Bible states. Word written by the Father (Aleph Bet), just as DNA shows as a shadow of the process. This is science from the mind that has the potential to know. You can't argue or dismiss Susskind. What I have shared is correct. To deny it is ignorance.
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19-01-2015, 11:13 AM
RE: Interesting Article
(19-01-2015 11:06 AM)AlephBet Wrote:  You can't have fish AlephBet without water spam.

Fixed.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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