Interesting Conversation with my bro
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26-10-2010, 01:00 PM
Interesting Conversation with my bro
>>older brother October 25 at 8:45pm
This is wrong:

“Ecstasy, rapture, bliss, concentration, a sense of the sacred—I’m comfortable with all of that,” says Harris later. “I think all of that is indispensable and I think it’s frankly lost on much of the atheist community.” - Sam Harris

Stereotyping at it's finest.

>>younger brother October 25 at 8:51pm Report
Do you really consider yourself a true atheist? And what does that mean, then? Are you comfortable with those things he listed: sacred, ecstasy, etc?

>>older brother October 25 at 9:11pm
are you saying I can't use the word sacred? of course I am comfortable with all that. and, yes, I am a non-theist, or, atheistif u will.

>>younger brother October 25 at 9:32pm Report
Okay, forget God. Take that word and that idea out of the picture. What I wish you were more open to is spirituality and what that author refers to as transcendence.

>>older brother October 25 at 10:45pm
Transcendence (philosophy), climbing or going beyond some philosophical concept or limit. I think I reached transcendence a long time ago. Spirituality, to me, usually means a belief in the unknown, even if that unknown flies in the face of the known. Not being "spiritual" doesn't mean not feeling ecstasy, rapture, bliss, etc...

>>younger brother October 26 at 8:24am Report
In practical terms spirituality is more of a feeling and less of a belief.

>>older brother October 26 at 8:56am
OK, then he's saying that atheists can't feel?

>>younger brother October 26 at 9:38am Report
No. I have moved on from the article now. Those are my words.

>>older brother October 26 at 10:01am
OK, I'm not sure what you're really trying to get me to be more open to then. Are you saying you want me to be more open to your spirituality?

>>younger brother October 26 at 11:00am Report
No, no, no......not MY spirituality, your own.

>>older brother October 26 at 11:35am
why do you think that my spirituality is in need of more open-ness? You don't think I ever meditate? You don't think I ever dream? Do you think I'm unhappy? Dude, there is good and there is bad. Nothing can change that. Either you do good or you do bad. You can either have the ability to think before you act (usually doing good, assuming you were reinforced as a child with the inherent knowledge of good and bad) or you don't (in which case some brain connections are not connected correctly, or you were reinforced wrongly as a child). No amount of spirituality/transcendence is going to change your true behavioral makeup once you start down one path or the other. That's why we try as a society to punish the bad and praise the good. BTW, sometimes acting without thinking results in good as well.

>>younger brother October 26 at 11:52am Report
Okay, then maybe you were right before: "open to your spirituality". But not only mine, but other's spirituality. No, I don't think you're unhappy.

>>older brother October 26 at 12:13pm
ok, thanks, because I am happy. But, again, I am open to people's spirituality. What I'm not open to is fairy tales, unless they are for bedtime stories. Plain and simple.

>>younger brother October 26 at 12:34pm Report
LOL. I like that. Fairy tales. But those fairy tales have a purpose, don't they? That's what Joseph Campbell says in The Power of Myth.

>>older brother October 26 at 12:50pm
Yes. The stories in the bible and fairy tales have a purpose. See the reinforcement I mentioned above. But the question is: Was/is the Bible needed to tell those stories? Back in the days of Constantine? Maybe. Needed now? no. Harmful today as a story book wrapped in a fantasy about a 6000 year old planet? Definitely yes.

>>younger brother October 26 at 1:29pm Report
Nah, not unnecessary, just distorted by a relatively recent movement towards a literal interpretation.

>>older brother October 26 at 1:36pm
this is a typical conversation with a theist... dodge ball

>>younger brother October 26 at 1:39pm Report
I don't understand.

>>older brother October 26 at 1:45pm
"distorted by a relatively recent movement towards a literal interpretation" - ie; you don't believe this. But, unfortunately, the masses (no pun intended) do. You're dodging what I was saying by your personal belief/faith/spirituality. My point is, good and bad can be taught without the use of fear of some horrible end that will befall you if you do not believe one thing or another (the Bible, Quran? d/k, Jewish? probably).

>>younger brother October 26 at 1:58pm Report
I'm not a moral theologian but I don't see how you can teach right from wrong without the threat of consequences either to someone else or to yourself. Abusing drugs is wrong. Why? Because it will hurt your body or because you might hurt someone else. That is a bad consequence. Murder is wrong. Because you hurt someone else. Again, a bad consequence. So even if we aren't telling people they are going to hell we are still using negative reinforcement to get them to be good.

>>older brother October 26 at 2:06pm
I didn't say you shouldn't use the threat of real consequences to teach right from wrong. As I said earlier, "That's why we try as a society to punish the bad and praise the good." These "real" consequences are necessary to live in a society as we have today. What isn't necessary is the threat of some fake idea that when the fake second coming comes, unless you read and believe John 3:16, you will be left here on earth or whatever instead of ascending into a fake heaven.

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
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26-10-2010, 08:03 PM
RE: Interesting Conversation with my bro
I'm surprised you didn't bring up the concept that truth and thus the ideas and understanding of morality change with knowledge of the world.

At which point why on earth would we rely on a first century text for "truth" or "morality"?
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