Interesting take on Atheism and what it misses about those who believe
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12-05-2015, 03:51 AM
RE: Interesting take on Atheism and what it misses about those who believe
Hmm, I meant to post that on another thread. God must have wanted it here instead.
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12-05-2015, 04:06 PM
RE: Interesting take on Atheism and what it misses about those who believe
(12-05-2015 01:58 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(10-05-2015 09:49 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Think Camus got it right. God can be a solution to the problem of meaninglessness, but it's a lazy one.

It's not a lazy one, it's just one that is inauthentic and it truly avoids the problem. It's not really an answer to him, it's deluding oneself to get by, which we can do, but confronting the absurd in all these solutions, and not fearing it or cowering from it is his real suggested solution.

I don't think Camus presented it as a preferred solution, only a viable one. And I think delusion is also at the heart of existentialism in the sense that man's creation of his own meaning is ultimately necessarily delusional, the difference is they realize it.

#sigh
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12-05-2015, 04:09 PM
RE: Interesting take on Atheism and what it misses about those who believe
(12-05-2015 03:25 AM)TheStraightener Wrote:  Occam's Razor.. The simplest solution is usually the correct one.

The simplest answer is to say God Did It


Checkmate, Atheists!!!!!

Sometimes the simplest answer is incorrect.
Actually the simplest answer is "We don't know yet".

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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12-05-2015, 08:48 PM
RE: Interesting take on Atheism and what it misses about those who believe
The whole thing strikes me as arrogant, lazy, and apologetic if not downright cowardly.

This person has come out and pretty much stated that it is true that god does not exist. But then he goes on to say, well it might be true that god doesn't exist in the real world but that doesn't matter because it's important that some people believe there is a god. Why? So they can have a sense of self-fulfillment? A sense of purpose and meaning? How solid is that sense if it is built on something that they KNOW in their heart of hearts is not real? And this is only for those people who are educated that he is speaking of, who hold onto some vague nebulous sense of religion without actually believing in any of it. Does pretending to believe a lie make them truly happy?

This isn't even addressing the fact that he has made no positive claim for religion or for god. He has simply stated that it is desirable for some people that god exists. OK. It is desirable for some people that flying cars exist. They don't though. And all the wishing in the world won't change that. You can drive around with the belief that if your Prius goes off a cliff it will fly, and it might make you feel better. But that doesn't mean that your Prius CAN fly.

I have a hard time sympathizing with this, although I do generally leave the sort of people he's talking about alone. If they get some solace in it, fine. If all they use their god for is a way to cope with the finality of death and an indifferent and vast universe, I don't care. These are scary things, and having a security blanket is understandable. But how secure is it? On some level these people often know that much of it is bullshit. They can't be introspective, they can't examine that blanket. And that's why I oppose it. I oppose the crippling of people for no good reason.
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12-05-2015, 09:43 PM
RE: Interesting take on Atheism and what it misses about those who believe
(12-05-2015 04:09 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(12-05-2015 03:25 AM)TheStraightener Wrote:  Occam's Razor.. The simplest solution is usually the correct one.

The simplest answer is to say God Did It

Checkmate, Atheists!!!!!

Sometimes the simplest answer is incorrect.
Actually the simplest answer is "We don't know yet".

Occam's Razor doesn't mean the simplest arguments win, it means the ones that have the least assumptions win. Inserting God as the answer has one making the biggest assumption that God exists.
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12-05-2015, 11:39 PM
RE: Interesting take on Atheism and what it misses about those who believe
(11-05-2015 11:39 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(09-05-2015 10:57 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  ^ This sums it up for me. It makes them feel good so they hold on to it.

Yes, it reminds me of The Life of Pi, which I found somewhat disturbing. The message seemed to be that which story you like better is more important than which story is true.

I didn't see Life of Pi so I can't comment on that part, but I have had real life conversations with people who basically said that. And that's what I have so much trouble wrapping my mind around. My conclusion is that some people value objective truth (or as close as a person can get to this) and some people don't. People have called me a jerk for saying that, but I don't think I am, it's the only conclusion I can come up with. If everyone cared about truth, people wouldn't freak out when you question their religion.

And I really, really, especially hate the argument that people can't cope with loss without religion. What's that's saying is they can't cope with the idea of death except by denying it entirely and pretending it doesn't exist, that they will all go to Heaven and drink tea and eat crumpets forever on a cloud with Jesus and Michael Jackson (only if you think the allegations against him were untrue, of course; otherwise he'll be in the other place). How is denying the reality of death coping at all? It also saddens me that these people seem to underestimate people so much. People can be very adaptive and resilient. I mean, believe whatever you want, but I find it sickening to tell other people they shouldn't question their religion because what if someone they love dies and then they won't be able to cope? That's really low, I think. If the scare tactic of hell doesn't work to keep people from asking questions, they use the scare tactic of losing your mind or something because they say you can't cope with grief without religion.

But as for the article, I've had discussions with drug users sort of like this. People asserting that since some people have similar psychedelic drugs trips, they are actually entering another realm of some sort and it's an objective reality. And I have told them, it's ok that you had an interesting drug trip and found it personally transformative. It's not ok that you insist your DMT hallucinations are objective reality and apply in any way to my life. And it's the same with religion. The problems start when they start forcing them on others, or using scare tactics to keep people from leaving or even questioning the religion, using them to discriminate against others, and so on.
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12-05-2015, 11:43 PM
RE: Interesting take on Atheism and what it misses about those who believe
(11-05-2015 11:39 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(09-05-2015 10:57 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  ^ This sums it up for me. It makes them feel good so they hold on to it.

Yes, it reminds me of The Life of Pi, which I found somewhat disturbing. The message seemed to be that which story you like better is more important than which story is true.

Fuck that movie so hard. Dodgy

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
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13-05-2015, 09:14 AM
RE: Interesting take on Atheism and what it misses about those who believe
(12-05-2015 11:43 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(11-05-2015 11:39 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Yes, it reminds me of The Life of Pi, which I found somewhat disturbing. The message seemed to be that which story you like better is more important than which story is true.

Fuck that movie so hard. Dodgy

I actually liked the movie (and the book). I just found the conclusion disturbing. It's also possible that I misread it, and the author wasn't actually drawing that conclusion, but just wanted us to think about it. Maybe he meant it to be disturbing. Maybe other commonly held beliefs are just stories we tell ourselves? I don't know any of this -- just speculating.
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