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25-10-2012, 04:23 PM
RE: Intro
(25-10-2012 04:14 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  
(25-10-2012 03:56 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Well I hope you at least nailed the shit out of that pussy first.

Yeah, I wish, though I might not have used those words...

Unfortunately, Mormons hold strongly to the idea of no sex out of marriage (though not every Mormon strictly follows those teachings) and my fiancee was on the strict side of this belief. Ah, well...

I am surprised she dated a non-member! You must have given her some reason to look outside of the box Smile
A good mormon girl wants a- return missionary/temple worthy/and a virgin!
My oldest son is on a mormon mission-

If no change in reality can change your belief - Then your belief is not based on anything in reality
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25-10-2012, 04:33 PM
RE: Intro
(25-10-2012 04:22 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Hope,
Welcome...you will come to learn the personalities here, just realize they are many and varied. Girly's one of the good guys.

Can I ask just how many are "tons" of children? And what age spread are we talking about...they will all have to be handled differently when it comes to accepting or at least understanding your change from faith to faith to non-belief.

It must be hard to feel so alone in your own family.

There are people here that are willing to listen and who want to help...even if the best help is listening.

I have 8 children- 19/18/15/13/11/9/6/4
They want to say goodnight prayers and I can't do it!
It's one thing to keep it to myself but to continue to brainwash them I can't do it, and with my husband still believing and talking bible talk with them- like creation shit!
What place do I have in all of this?

If no change in reality can change your belief - Then your belief is not based on anything in reality
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25-10-2012, 04:36 PM (This post was last modified: 25-10-2012 04:39 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Intro
(25-10-2012 04:14 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  
(25-10-2012 03:56 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Well I hope you at least nailed the shit out of that pussy first.

Yeah, I wish, though I might not have used those words...

Unfortunately, Mormons hold strongly to the idea of no sex out of marriage (though not every Mormon strictly follows those teachings) and my fiancee was on the strict side of this belief. Ah, well...

Well, that pretty much sucks for you.

(25-10-2012 04:16 PM)Hope Wrote:  Really?? 'GirlyMan'
Letting it go is easy to say- My intentions for joining this forum were to not be alone in all of the shit I am dealing with!

You are not alone, Girly will help you to the the best of his abilities.

(25-10-2012 04:16 PM)Hope Wrote:  I don't believe ignoring or brushing my worries away are the healthiest thing for me to do- if anything that is what I have been doing for the past 40 years!

Girly fucking disagrees. .... We got different definitions of healthy.

(25-10-2012 04:14 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  I'm sorry I may just be overacting and please just try to understand this is extremely hard- I am the only Atheist that I know of in my circle of family & friends that is why I have been searching for some support.
Can I just speak my mind and work through this?
I don't want a pity party- just some understanding.

Girly understands and appreciates your pathetic ass.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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25-10-2012, 04:41 PM
RE: Intro
It's got to be tough with such a range of ages, personalities, and degrees of indoctrination. I wish I had a good answer. It does seem to me that you don't have to be in lock-step with your husband, you are the mother of those kids and shouldn't feel forced to lie to them about things that are so important.

Are all of your kids heavily into religious belief? I mean really? Or are they doing it because it's what your family does?

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude.
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25-10-2012, 05:29 PM
RE: Intro
(25-10-2012 04:41 PM)Anjele Wrote:  It's got to be tough with such a range of ages, personalities, and degrees of indoctrination. I wish I had a good answer. It does seem to me that you don't have to be in lock-step with your husband, you are the mother of those kids and shouldn't feel forced to lie to them about things that are so important.

Are all of your kids heavily into religious belief? I mean really? Or are they doing it because it's what your family does?

The most difficult part of all of this is that a little over a year ago I walked away from the mormon church the religion we raised all 8 of our children in and heavily indoctrinated them, it took months and almost a breakup of our family before my husband gave into even thinking about listening to me, he left mostly to keep our marriage alive and our children emotionally safe.
The oldest children really haven't recovered from that situation, our oldest is on a mormon mission and our 15 year old is not talking about any of it.
They lost friends and trust in many things.
I introduced them to a christian church about a year ago, that alone was a struggle they fought to except anything other than mormon teachings but with the same indoctrination- "fundamentalist" church most of the children and husband excepted it eventually.
It wasn't until our marriage was getting better again and family had stopped attacking me as the evil mother who dragged her family to hell that I started to relax and step back and see how what we had gotten into wasn't any different than any other church or faith, I kept it to myself for months hoping I was wrong and that this to would pass-
I wanted to understand myself better and why I had made such a decision and
that's when I started studying Cognitive Dissonance which led to more study in psychology.
I had planned on keeping this to myself and it's not possible.
I guess what I am trying to explain is that now I know the children need me to be honest, but why should they believe me?
My husband has been tolerating me as best as possible, he did share something with me this morning that surprised me, that he holds onto believing in the bible just to save his ass from hell!
So I would say yes they are indoctrinated considering we jumped from the mormon cult to a fundamentalist christian faith- the little ones say "jesus created everything".
What we have agreed on as parents is to teach them about all religions and cultures of the world, they have been isolated for so long and so have I- it is like we've been living in a bubble!

If no change in reality can change your belief - Then your belief is not based on anything in reality
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25-10-2012, 06:00 PM
Intro
Hi Hope.
Girly is like the surly neighbor across the street that yells at the kids to stay out of his yard. Meanwhile, behind the scenes he's buying them sports equipment and writing anonymous tuition checks. You'll get used to him and he will be your forum guard dog to handle business for you if the trolls come out.

If no one has already suggested it or if you haven't already found it, be sure to check out the recovering from religion forum. You might find some stories and ideas there that you can resonate with. Or if not, start some new threads and vent and rant and cry and laugh all you like.

If I may, and again if no one else has already mentioned it, check out meetup.com. Search for Freethinking or Atheist groups. They're popping up everywhere these days and maybe there's a group near you. Or maybe not.

And if you want to consider counseling, check out seculartherapy.org. Not saying you need it, but I know I do after a lifetime of delusion about woo.

Final word of greeting, ask questions, keep a thick skin. This is the Internet and not everyone plays nice. But the majority of us do play nice...even if it doesn't always seem like it, our intentions are good. We just forget sometimes that not everyone may be ready for our coarse language and dirty jokes.

Enjoy! I'm really glad you've decided to share your story with us. Smile

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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25-10-2012, 06:03 PM
RE: Intro
(25-10-2012 06:00 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Hi Hope.
Girly is like the surly neighbor across the street that yells at the kids to stay out of his yard. Meanwhile, behind the scenes he's buying them sports equipment and writing anonymous tuition checks. You'll get used to him and he will be your forum guard dog to handle business for you if the trolls come out.

If no one has already suggested it or if you haven't already found it, be sure to check out the recovering from religion forum. You might find some stories and ideas there that you can resonate with. Or if not, start some new threads and vent and rant and cry and laugh all you like.

If I may, and again if no one else has already mentioned it, check out meetup.com. Search for Freethinking or Atheist groups. They're popping up everywhere these days and maybe there's a group near you. Or maybe not.

And if you want to consider counseling, check out seculartherapy.org. Not saying you need it, but I know I do after a lifetime of delusion about woo.

Final word of greeting, ask questions, keep a thick skin. This is the Internet and not everyone plays nice. But the majority of us do play nice...even if it doesn't always seem like it, our intentions are good. We just forget sometimes that not everyone may be ready for our coarse language and dirty jokes.

Enjoy! I'm really glad you've decided to share your story with us. Smile

It sure is nice to see the real you on occasion. Thumbsup

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-10-2012, 06:04 PM
RE: Intro
Wait, is your husband hanging onto a lifetime of Mormon beliefs or a year of Christian beliefs? I would have guessed that if it's the former, then he would be holding onto the Book of Mormon and the Bible to save his ass from the Terrestrial Kingdom, right? Or maybe even the Telestial Kingdom, but he probably wouldn't think that's his destiny if he also thinks he's (mostly) following the D&Cs properly. Or is your (his) religious viewpoint on heaven and hell a little more harsh than SLC Mormons usually take?

But really, either way, if avoiding eternity in hell (or in the wrong kingdom of heaven) is the only reason to hang onto a book (or two books) of mythology and fairy tales, maybe it's time to dig deeper and figure out WHY those books make those threats? Could it be that the only reason for the threats is to scare the believers, particularly those who are weak in their faith, to scare them so bad that they're afraid to NOT believe? If so, then are we sure he is truly comfortable giving so much time and energy to a religion that is so tyrannical that it resorts to fear and oppression to keep him from leaving? Is that the sort of religion that a real "Heavenly Father" would condone?

If he answers that question fairly, then maybe that might help him take the next step. Heck, his confession to you means he might be teetering on the edge anyway so I suggest nudging him in the right direction - but I'm not one to give you marital advice; you have to decide if and when it's the right time.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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25-10-2012, 06:56 PM
Intro
(25-10-2012 06:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-10-2012 06:00 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Hi Hope.
Girly is like the surly neighbor across the street that yells at the kids to stay out of his yard. Meanwhile, behind the scenes he's buying them sports equipment and writing anonymous tuition checks. You'll get used to him and he will be your forum guard dog to handle business for you if the trolls come out.

If no one has already suggested it or if you haven't already found it, be sure to check out the recovering from religion forum. You might find some stories and ideas there that you can resonate with. Or if not, start some new threads and vent and rant and cry and laugh all you like.

If I may, and again if no one else has already mentioned it, check out meetup.com. Search for Freethinking or Atheist groups. They're popping up everywhere these days and maybe there's a group near you. Or maybe not.

And if you want to consider counseling, check out seculartherapy.org. Not saying you need it, but I know I do after a lifetime of delusion about woo.

Final word of greeting, ask questions, keep a thick skin. This is the Internet and not everyone plays nice. But the majority of us do play nice...even if it doesn't always seem like it, our intentions are good. We just forget sometimes that not everyone may be ready for our coarse language and dirty jokes.

Enjoy! I'm really glad you've decided to share your story with us. Smile

It sure is nice to see the real you on occasion. Thumbsup

Thank you.


I think. Confused

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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25-10-2012, 08:42 PM
RE: Intro
(25-10-2012 01:56 PM)Hope Wrote:  I believe you understand me perfectly.

Reading this really helped what was looking to be a pretty depressing day and really helped me build some perspective on what is to come, sometimes it is difficult to see outside of today.

I am feeling like an ass- I have wanted to bash my head against the wall repeatedly!

It's one thing to be raised in the mormon church and not know anything different and slowly climbing your way out, but for me to turn around dragging my children and husband with me into just another mess!

I am overwhelmed to say the least with guilt and outrage at the stupidity of excepting another "faith".

I have yet to tell my children....I just can't imagine how they will ever look at me and see anything but a confused mess of a mother!

I can see clearly why I ran to another "faith"....my husband of 20 years wasn't joining me and had lied to me for years, how could I trust him.

I had all family members eating me down to nothing as well as so called friends in the mormon church....

I ran to a christian church hoping to find the so called truth!
I was loved and sympathized with and an emotional mess to say the least I wished for death daily!

But still I made a choice and it was wrong!

The most rewarding part about excepting Atheism is realizing I want to live and I want to live more than ever- I see the faces of my children and who they are and not what they need to be.

Thank you so much for taking the time to share with me- It will always been remembered.

Hope,

It's very easy to feel this way, upset or angry or disappointed or feel betrayal. Instead of being mad at yourself or at others, keep in mind that most people that believe, usually believe what they are doing is sincerely correct. I know that when I was a Christian, I actually felt like what I was doing "was right" and anyone who was different "just wasn't" - and most would tell you that's how most are taught to feel. If you really look at mass scale religion, and look at the breakdown of what a cult is and the support structure, you'll find it mostly fits it to the T.

- Thought reform and insertion of new support structure
- Doctrine
- Isolation from outside ideas, or conversion of ideas to fit new ideas (confirmation bias)
- Dependency on the organization
- Anxiety, fear, panic if left from the organization

Naturally with any cult, whether it be some backwoods cult, small town cult, or major religion, these are common. People feel like there is a new way of thinking, a new support structure is inserted and of course, outside ideas are viewed as betrayal to the group. People are cut off, shunned and sometimes vilified if they attempt to leave the group. The doctrine generally also includes just as much thought process to anxiety, fear and hatred towards the idea of leaving the group, as it does pink fluffy clouds and butterflies. So of course it is natural as a human being, to feel fear and anxiety when one breaks away. It can be TERRIFYING. After all, we're taught that we'll burn in hell forever, or receive eternal torment and other horrible things depending on what a person was taught. "You wouldn't want that!" they tell us.

So it is natural as a person leaves religion to feel these things. One could never tell another religious person, "You're in a cult!" as they don't see it as such, since they are indoctrinated. And of course, just as I was, and just as you were, felt the same when we were indoctrinated as well.

Once you leave, it is also natural to be upset at those that tricked us, deceived us... but some of them, perhaps even all of them, thought they were not doing any such thing.

So of course it is very easy to be upset with yourself, or with others. The largest problem though is that once you've taken the exit door from religion and stepped out into reality, you suddenly see it from a VERY different perspective, and everyone else still haven't left the building.

I have to constantly remind myself when my family tries to witness to me or try and convince me to return to their little jesus cult that they still believe it sincerely. Afterall, it is easier for me to put myself in their shoes now, since I know how it felt, than it is for them to put theirselves in my shoes since they can't think of it any other way other than what they know.

It is very easy indeed to want to just tell everyone at once, "HEY! This religion thing is crap! you people are nuts!" - but of course, the last thing you likely want is to sever relationships and friends and family. If you do tell them and they are still indoctrinated, I would say to be very careful about it. But be aware that once you tell people, it is likely that people will definitely see you differently.

Instead of taking the attitude of wanting to debate with every theist I've ran across, I have slowly adapted the attitude that I am in charge of my life. I am in charge of my attitude. I am a good person, I can be a good person because I want to be. I figure if I live my life as a good example to others, such a stigma of a name or a title... "Atheist"... may change their mind about how they view us, rather than breaking the news to them abruptly. Some people I don't even tell at all.

I think you're on a good road to realization from what it sounds like. But trenching through the mud, the resentment, the crap and everything you went through, and trying to find all the good things and the view that is positive is not an overnight change. But that's ok, because I would rather have become an atheist where I'm at in life now, knowing what I know, than lived my life never seeing life the way I see it now.

That said, you may find some comfort in the following videos, since it sounds as if you could use some positive reinforcement Smile

We are here to help, and happy to offer support. Many of us have been there.
We also have a thread for those who need a positive break from stuff
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...iness-Hope







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