Intro -- from a Christian :)
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08-12-2012, 07:24 AM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
God & his holy vacuum cleaner... eish...
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08-12-2012, 07:28 AM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(07-12-2012 11:33 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  The willingness to stand by a belief that is true is an admirable trait. But what exactly do you mean by "in good faith", also taking into account your stated YEC beliefs, how are you sure what beliefs of yours are true? (I.E how do you verify your assumptions?)

First, when I say, "in good faith," I mean that I try to be clear that whatever I'm talking about, I either presently believe it or I don't and am intrigued by it to consider it. In other words, I'm more than happy to literally change my viewpoints at a moment's notice, but I require myself to really think something thru prior to integrating it into my personal belief system.

Second, excellent question. Most of my theological beliefs are (hopefully) based on the Bible. I have a small library of books that go into explaining why the Bible can be believed. I used to know so much about that stuff, but after dealing with so many of the same questions over and over, the topic actually got boring for me (much the inverse of how some non-believers are here) and I began to focus on what such a belief *meant* to people. Relational versus academic/clinical.

To be fair to your question, though, I do my best to practice biblical hermeneutics when it comes to interpreting the Bible.
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08-12-2012, 07:29 AM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(08-12-2012 07:19 AM)Phil_GA Wrote:  1. It depends. Humans are teleologically-based beings.
What do you mean by that?

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08-12-2012, 07:36 AM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(07-12-2012 11:38 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  I'm not sure why some people are already writing him off as a waste of time. I'm getting a much better vibe from him attitude wise than I do from most people who are YEC.

Seriously guys, if we are going to be hornets we need to at least give him the chance to be stung. Big Grin

Heh. Whatever. I figured I was doing my own professional pudding stirring by actually showing up at this forum and presenting a viewpoint of Christianity that is a bit off the beaten path - and being willing to take on what I've already seen as both logical and illogical reactions to the faith.

I think some here are simply taking me thru their version of rhetorical basic training just to see how I'll fare. Totally understandable and, unfortunately, necessary. Sometimes I wish the church would do the same thing - oh, wait - it sometimes does, except for the purposes of extracting dogma from its adherents. Really bites either way.

This forum is already both interesting and though-provoking to me.

I'm not going away Wink
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08-12-2012, 07:41 AM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(08-12-2012 07:28 AM)Phil_GA Wrote:  
(07-12-2012 11:33 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  The willingness to stand by a belief that is true is an admirable trait. But what exactly do you mean by "in good faith", also taking into account your stated YEC beliefs, how are you sure what beliefs of yours are true? (I.E how do you verify your assumptions?)

First, when I say, "in good faith," I mean that I try to be clear that whatever I'm talking about, I either presently believe it or I don't and am intrigued by it to consider it. In other words, I'm more than happy to literally change my viewpoints at a moment's notice, but I require myself to really think something thru prior to integrating it into my personal belief system.

Second, excellent question. Most of my theological beliefs are (hopefully) based on the Bible. I have a small library of books that go into explaining why the Bible can be believed. I used to know so much about that stuff, but after dealing with so many of the same questions over and over, the topic actually got boring for me (much the inverse of how some non-believers are here) and I began to focus on what such a belief *meant* to people. Relational versus academic/clinical.

To be fair to your question, though, I do my best to practice biblical hermeneutics when it comes to interpreting the Bible.


I suggest you get a small collection of science books. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-12-2012, 07:46 AM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(07-12-2012 11:43 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(07-12-2012 11:22 PM)Phil_GA Wrote:  big leap saying you know more about the Bible than I ever will -- I wonder if it's worth cataloging all the logical fallacies you just ran roughshod over in an apparent attempt to make (maybe) a rational point?
You have no clue what "my purposes" are here. You're are out of your league with respect to your "holy writ" crap.
By all means, feel free to list "all the logical fallacies".
BTW, "free will" is debunked by Neuro-science. You are not even 100 % aware of the elements of a decision until after it's made.
See Eagleman et all, Libet etc, among many others. It's old hat.
Since the universe appears to be flat, and is expanding, (from one point), there is every reason to think it is uniform, and that your sky fairy is not hiding somewhere else in it. If not, please provide evidence for the contrary.
You actually are so deluded you think you're going to show up here, and we all go "oh well, let's *suspend* everything, maybe THIS one will convince me the BS is all true" ? Right. Get a grip.

You know, in technology, when I'd encounter such attitudes, I'd typically chalk it up to some old man who discriminates based on age who isn't prepared to deal with the younger set coming onto "his turf" and presenting new ways to deal with old problems.

Really, I get that. Then, I move on.

Frankly, I don't really care about your purposes here. Mine is to discuss, which you've already made clear is *not* part of your purpose (yet you appear to want to discuss, else you'd have quit long before now; that behavior isn't entirely rational, but then again, neither is some of mine).

And, once again, since we have next to no clue about each other personally (except what we've shared here), it is utterly illogical for you to make some of these claims against me, your position apparently against free will notwithstanding.
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08-12-2012, 07:46 AM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(08-12-2012 07:41 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-12-2012 07:28 AM)Phil_GA Wrote:  First, when I say, "in good faith," I mean that I try to be clear that whatever I'm talking about, I either presently believe it or I don't and am intrigued by it to consider it. In other words, I'm more than happy to literally change my viewpoints at a moment's notice, but I require myself to really think something thru prior to integrating it into my personal belief system.

Second, excellent question. Most of my theological beliefs are (hopefully) based on the Bible. I have a small library of books that go into explaining why the Bible can be believed. I used to know so much about that stuff, but after dealing with so many of the same questions over and over, the topic actually got boring for me (much the inverse of how some non-believers are here) and I began to focus on what such a belief *meant* to people. Relational versus academic/clinical.

To be fair to your question, though, I do my best to practice biblical hermeneutics when it comes to interpreting the Bible.


I suggest you get a small collection of science books. Drinking Beverage
To keep warm ? Big Grin
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08-12-2012, 07:50 AM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(08-12-2012 01:20 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Now Bucky and Muffsy, what have I told you two boys about not being rude to our guests?
...
You're supposed to give them 24 hours and then you can ass fuck them. Just make sure to use lube like your daddys taught you.

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(That's my attempt at humor.)
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08-12-2012, 08:00 AM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(08-12-2012 07:28 AM)Phil_GA Wrote:  
(07-12-2012 11:33 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  The willingness to stand by a belief that is true is an admirable trait. But what exactly do you mean by "in good faith", also taking into account your stated YEC beliefs, how are you sure what beliefs of yours are true? (I.E how do you verify your assumptions?)

First, when I say, "in good faith," I mean that I try to be clear that whatever I'm talking about, I either presently believe it or I don't and am intrigued by it to consider it. In other words, I'm more than happy to literally change my viewpoints at a moment's notice, but I require myself to really think something thru prior to integrating it into my personal belief system.

Second, excellent question. Most of my theological beliefs are (hopefully) based on the Bible. I have a small library of books that go into explaining why the Bible can be believed. I used to know so much about that stuff, but after dealing with so many of the same questions over and over, the topic actually got boring for me (much the inverse of how some non-believers are here) and I began to focus on what such a belief *meant* to people. Relational versus academic/clinical.

To be fair to your question, though, I do my best to practice biblical hermeneutics when it comes to interpreting the Bible.


First, I will start of by saying that I consider that first part with equal parts glee and dubiousness. Glee because it is about 4.45 billion leaps ahead of most YECs, and I find it to be a good philosophy to hold; being willing to adapt is an excellent trait; after all life forms that don't die out quick.
However, I am dubious due to past experiences, wherein the guarantee of open mindedness was given, and but delivered upon, so you'll have to excuse my cynical nature.

Well, lets get down to business, shall we?

If I asked you to get one of these books as an example, could you tell me its author and give an example of one of it's arguments for the bible's accuracy or dependability?


Also, if I may ask; How do you address the dissonance between established sciences & their observations and biblical accounts? For example: evolution and spontaneous creation?

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08-12-2012, 08:01 AM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(08-12-2012 01:08 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  You're a YEC and believe in the bible version of God...

1) You're an idiot, IMO.

2) You are gonna get torn to shreds, have a fucking cry about it, bitch that all atheists are going to hell and leave. I give you... errrrr 2weeks.

Maybe I need to pull a Bucky Ball and claim that you have no clue about my purposes here and that you're out of your league when dealing with me.

Instead, my responses:

1. I've been called worse.

2. See initial response, above. And by the way: I neither have the authority to claim anyone's going to hell, nor do I have the desire to even rhetorically put someone there. Besides, since I believe in free will, I believe nobody's going anywhere until they die (which there's a 1-in-1 chance of occurring).

Life's enough of a bitch to hold hell over someone's head.
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