Intro -- from a Christian :)
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09-12-2012, 09:55 PM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
Quote:Like I said, therefore forgiveness is an utterly irrational

Wrong.

Forgiveness is very rational.
At a core animal level if you and I were living in the wild and you accidentally dropped a log on my toe if there was no such thing as forgiveness I would be angry with you and hate you for you did.
This would interfere with our basic survival.
Hence it is better for me to forgive you and carry on our cooperation on the grounds of survival.

The same applies to morals.
Morals ARE rational because they allow survival (survival being the main purpose of any living thing).
ie: If TTA was a small tribe living in the wild (not far from the truth) it is in our best interest to be able to trust eachother.
ie: If HoC went around stabbing people then people would fear for their survival and hence the cooperation of the group would fall apart.
But if there is a understanding that going around stabbing people is not in our best interest of survival then stabbing people would be considered morally bad.
And hence, morals are rational ways in which humans can co-exist.

No God needed, simply basic animal instincts.

You can see it in the animal kingdom currently all the time.

Quote:this being an intro thread and all

Yes we can see that, we don't care, get over it and answer our questions.

Quote: Frankly, it's felt a bit like a firing squad coming onto this forum,

You're a Christian (a YEC and a homophobe at that) coming onto a ATHEIST forum, what the fuck did you expect!?? the red carpet? Nigga please, get real.

Quote:almost as if to say that if I don't provide exactly the right answer for
the right expectations (whatever those are), then I'm just an idiot.

Yeah pretty much.

Hell, even our resident Calvinist can see the stupidity in YEC, that and he's not a homophobe.

Quote:Of course, that would be a highly irrational response,

Why?
Our faith is based on scientific evidence.
Yours is based on thousand year old book written by illiterate middle easterners.

Harry Potter books are more likely then the Bible. Prove me wrong.

Quote:Do I have it about right so far?

Nope.

Quote:So. I grew up in a Christian-based home where I was, by default, taught the Bible.

So basically you were and still are brainwashed since you were a child.
We have many atheists who were like you.

Quote:I was taught to question what I read

Obviously you didn't score very highly in those lessons.

Quote:In other words, I'm presently as convinced that the Bible is inspired as
from God as some of you people are convinced that other works of
lierature or science explain to your s

Ahh, no, just no.
You believe the bible because you have faith that God inspired those words.

We believe scientific facts because they have evidence to prove/disprove them. No faith required.
AND open for updates.

Quote:And therein lies the rub. I could sit here, reopen all the books in my
small library that verifies the evidence for why I believe why I believe

Your small library has nothing but books on why the bible is right?
As suggested, you really need to get a small library of actual good books.

Also I'd be interested to know who wrote those books, what year they were written in, who published them, what evidence etc.. they provide.

You say you were taught to question what you read so question.

Quote:we'll sit here going over sub-topic after sub-topic, and we'll end up back at square one.

Square one being right now that you're a idiot.
And a homophobe.

Quote:I told you - I've been down this path with countless non-believers
before, and the non-believer either gets closer to understanding
Christianity or further away from it, and I end up getting frustrated
because it feels like I wasted a bunch of time going back to square one.

So why bother?

Cyalaterbye.

Quote:Why is this?

Several reasons:

1) You're an idiot.
2) You're a homophobe
3) You were brainwahsed as a child and are fearful, no.. terrified.. to lose your faith.
4) You are weak willed
5) see point 1.

Quote: I very much have a rationale for my belief system. It starts with the Bible.

No you really don't.
Get it through your thick bloody skull. YOU. DO. NOT. HAVE. A. RATIONAL. BASES. OF. WHICH. YOU. BASE. YOUR. FAITH. OFF. THE. BIBLE. IS. NOTHING. BUT. A. CIRCULAR. ARGUMENT. (the bible is right because the bible says it's right) AND. HAS. NO. EVIDENCE.

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09-12-2012, 10:12 PM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
Muffs I asked for a books author and and example argument, but I don't think I was ever answered.

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09-12-2012, 10:15 PM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(09-12-2012 10:12 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Muffs I asked for a books author and and example argument, but I don't think I was ever answered.
He probably believes that because it was published it instantly means it is irrefutable fact and hence does not need to question things like biased authors, year of publication, publisher, country of print etc.. etc...

He's an idiot (and a homphobe) so I really wouldn't be surprised.

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09-12-2012, 10:17 PM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(09-12-2012 10:12 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Muffs I asked for a books author and and example argument, but I don't think I was ever answered.
That's because... we hate you. Angry

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09-12-2012, 10:58 PM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(09-12-2012 09:55 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:I was taught to question what I read

Obviously you didn't score very highly in those lessons.

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11-12-2012, 08:27 PM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(09-12-2012 09:55 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  ...
Quote:Why is this?

Several reasons:

1) You're an idiot.
2) You're a homophobe
3) You were brainwahsed as a child and are fearful, no.. terrified.. to lose your faith.
4) You are weak willed
5) see point 1.

Quote: I very much have a rationale for my belief system. It starts with the Bible.

No you really don't.
Get it through your thick bloody skull. YOU. DO. NOT. HAVE. A. RATIONAL. BASES. OF. WHICH. YOU. BASE. YOUR. FAITH. OFF. THE. BIBLE. IS. NOTHING. BUT. A. CIRCULAR. ARGUMENT. (the bible is right because the bible says it's right) AND. HAS. NO. EVIDENCE.
[/quote]

To answer your last paragraph first, I don't think you can quote me stating that the Bible is my *only* basis of belief. Instead, I believe I said that it is where I *started.*

Now, on to the numbered points:

1. I don't think I would have been called an "idiot" *as quickly* if I hadn't mentioned a particular view on Young Earth Creationism. I say this not because I fear being called names; rather, I'm morbidly fascinated at what it takes to really press someone's buttons. More on this general theme in a moment.

2. If I'm a homophobe, then I must be the most gay-friendly homophobe on earth, in light of the actual definition of the word (which I've already covered). Again, more on this in a moment.

3. Ok. This observation is so ridiculous in light of what this intro thread demonstrates when someone of faith enters a forum like this, I'm just going to skip to the main point now...

How is it that I'm the fearful one in all this (the main point of all this) when...

...of my own free will, I decided to enter this forum where I knew people would be against what I believe?

...it is not I who first brought up the concept of sending people to hell, but you people?

...I bring up the concept of being open on the abortion issue but instantly referenced as being essentially pro-life with no caveats?

...I bring up the concept that I'm against gay marriage and that somehow makes me hate all gay people?

...I even mention that I'm a Christian and am told that I have no idea what I'm talking about (i believe that was within the first few pages of this thread) because I haven't given a doctoral thesis on why I believe what I believe?

I don't think I'm the fearful one here. And given the results thus far in everyone's reactions to my apparent invasion of the forum (!), why should I share with any of you the reasons for why I believe the way I believe?

Is it going to change your viewpoint? Are you going to be any less accusatory in my specific direction than you already have been? Do you honestly think that having such a negative tone is really going to endear a positive response?

It's funny. I've already stated that I didn't originally come onto this forum to convert anyone. Yet, I'm being treated as if I am.

What was my expectation? I honestly thought this was a reasonably tolerant forum where someone like me could intro himself with the understanding that, no, we don't agree on many things but, yes, we could agree to disagree (no matter how strongly), but that *it wouldn't matter* anyone's particular beliefs *until* such time as someone began a thread about a particular issue.

Then again, true tolerance is tolerating intolerance, and maybe I had completely the wrong expectations for this forum.

A simple correction from the community on my expectation would certainly go a long way in determining whether or not this has just been an utterly fantastic waste of time.
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11-12-2012, 09:12 PM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2012 09:20 PM by Phil_GA.)
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(08-12-2012 01:29 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(08-12-2012 01:23 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  I can understand their reactions, and can hardly blame them, YECs don't tend to be the brightest, tolerant or rational people...

Frankly I am just awaiting a response to my question.

Frankly that's no excuse to be rude and make atheists live up to their name of being angry and uncivil and unreasonable.

Erxomai,

Unfortunately, it's beginning to look like the a-theists are beginning to live *down* to this stereotype. It's very, very tiring having to field responses to assumed and false claims against me from others here -- to the point that I just posted my previous wall of text.

It's really too bad. I was really looking forward to having some good debate, but how can you debate angry, uncivil and unreasonable people, all of whom became that way because of the fact that I simply hold a different opinion?

EDIT:

One more thing. After just reading through some of the other recent intros by those who don't claim to be Christian, perhaps someone could explain to me why they get an apparent pass at their present spiritual state but I rhetorically get torn apart?

Is it simply assumed that they clearly are being rational simply because they're not necessarily Christian, but I don't get the same benefit of the doubt?

Remember, I'm wondering about *civil* discourse, not a non-religious inquisition, especially when you don't know me.
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11-12-2012, 09:27 PM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2012 10:44 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(11-12-2012 08:27 PM)Phil_GA Wrote:  Then again, true tolerance is tolerating intolerance, and maybe I had completely the wrong expectations for this forum.

A simple correction from the community on my expectation would certainly go a long way in determining whether or not this has just been an utterly fantastic waste of time.

That's my expectation of this forum. Don't mean it's my expectation of individual members of this forum. Also don't mean I won't take your metaphysics and just roll it up into a baton, twirl it like a cheerleader, and throw it into the crowd. ... Wait, now I ain't sure whether I'm talking to Phil or MuffinHead. ... Ah fuck it, think I can twirl multiple batons.

(11-12-2012 09:12 PM)Phil_GA Wrote:  I was really looking forward to having some good debate, but how can you debate angry, uncivil and unreasonable people, ...

Who you calling angry ... or uncivil (well okay, I'll stipulate vulgarity - get used to it ... or not.) ... or unreasonable ... bitch?

(11-12-2012 09:12 PM)Phil_GA Wrote:  ... all of whom became that way because of the fact that I simply hold a different opinion?

The fuck was that? What'd I just see? ... Fucker thinks his opinion influences Girly's. Not fucking likely.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
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Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
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11-12-2012, 11:47 PM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
Phil_GA, you have no right to expect to be treated nice Wink Either you get insulted, get upset and leave, or you find a way to deal. It's the same for me. I've had some pretty average grade boring shit said to me in the forum, some of which made me feel pretty average and boring. I got over it. Whining about people being rude to you is pretty funny - and gets no sympathy. No one here has any obligation to 'not let down the side', be *polite* and *appear* nice when really we're horrible people. Sometimes, and especially when you express views like 'Gay marriage? YUCK', you're gonna spark off people and they're gonna lay into you. *Deal with it*. It's your problem, not ours.

I asked you the questions about abortion and homosexuality *because* I know it's an awkward question for people to handle if they're not holding the politically correct view. I can be friends with *you* but if you try to justify you're "beliefs" on these issues and expect to get away without a challenge - well, sorry mate, not gonna let go.

You know how Christians say 'hate the sin not the sinner' ? I strive to hate the belief and not the believer. *However* over the course of the last few years I have established that communication with some people is more or less impossible.

You seem one hell of a lot more compos mentis than most Christians who come here. I don't know if we just get the dregs of society or if we get the best of the best and you guys are all crazy. I was wondering if you'd be back 'cos we did have a right go at you. If you stick around, maybe we will learn something from each other. Would be obliged if you'd answer some of the questions in this thread and be aware it'll be a long ass time before we agree to disagree.

Pro tip: ignoring questions or attempting to dodge them is the number one way to convince all of us to write you off as another lunatic, perhaps a bit more pleasant than the others, but still lunatic and no point in having serious discussion.

This 'unbelievers get a free pass' - it's *your* job to ask us the hard questions. We ask you questions about your beliefs, you do the same to us.

Hope you stick around, but won't really give a damn if you don't Wink
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12-12-2012, 01:05 AM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
Ah good, I thought you'd gone away. Or should i say I was praying you had gone away? Consider

Quote:To answer your last paragraph first, I don't think you can quote me
stating that the Bible is my *only* basis of belief. Instead, I believe I
said that it is where I *started.*

Okay then let me rephrase. The bible if your only source of evidence and the bible is not a credible source of evidence because it is a circular argument "the bible is right because the bible says its right".

It's atheism101.

Quote:1. I don't think I would have been called an "idiot" *as quickly* if I
hadn't mentioned a particular view on Young Earth Creationism. I say
this not because I fear being called names; rather, I'm morbidly
fascinated at what it takes to really press someone's buttons. More on
this general theme in a moment.

Don't flatter yourself son. Certain things push my buttons, christians, YEC, homophobes or a combination of all three are not among them.
When I say that you're an idiot imagine me saying it whilst laughing. ie: "lol you're such a fucking moron".
Like I'm embarrassed for you because you're so stupid.

Quote: If I'm a homophobe, then I must be the most gay-friendly homophobe on
earth, in light of the actual definition of the word (which I've already
covered). Again, more on this in a moment.

Sure and I voted for Obama so I'm not a racist.. yeah okay son.
You keep prancing around in your little homophobic state of denial.

Quote:3. Ok. This observation is so ridiculous in light of what this intro
thread demonstrates when someone of faith enters a forum like this, I'm
just going to skip to the main point now...

Ridiculous?
Coincidence that Christian children grow up christian, Muslim children grow up Muslim, Hindu children grow up and migrate to New Zealand??
I think not!

Quote:How is it that I'm the fearful one in all this (the main point of all this) when...



...of my own free will, I decided to enter this forum where I knew people would be against what I believe?

You mistake bravery with bible bashing.

Quote:...it is not I who first brought up the concept of sending people to hell, but you people?

You're the Christian, you actually believe it so..

Quote:...I bring up the concept of being open on the abortion issue but
instantly referenced as being essentially pro-life with no caveats?

You said you were pro-life.. Like if my memory serves me well, your actual words "I'm pro-life".
Are you now saying you are pro-choice?

Quote:...I bring up the concept that I'm against gay marriage and that somehow makes me hate all gay people?

It makes you an ignorant homophobe.
You know you said more then just anti-gay marriage. If my memory serves me well again you were also against gay sex and pretty much gay relations as a whole. But say it shouldn't be illegal simply because it's hard to police...
Thus, homophobe.

Quote:...I even mention that I'm a Christian and am told that I have no idea what I'm talking about

Well you're a Christian, so no you don't have any idea what you are talking about.

Quote:I don't think I'm the fearful one here. And given the results thus far
in everyone's reactions to my apparent invasion of the forum (!), why
should I share with any of you the reasons for why I believe the way I
believe?

Lol, get aloud of this guy TTA, he thinks we are afraid of him...

LOL!

You can't honestly expect to, as a Christian, come onto an ATHEIST forum and not have to defend your beliefs.
God damn you are a bigger idiot then I initially thought.

Quote:Is it going to change your viewpoint? Are you going to be any less
accusatory in my specific direction than you already have been?

I'll get a good laugh out of it.

Quote:It's funny.

Thank you, I try to put a little bit of effort in.

Quote:I've already stated that I didn't originally come onto this forum to convert anyone. Yet, I'm being treated as if I am.

We're not asking you to convert, we're simply asking if you can back up your beliefs or are you just another idiotic sheep?
At least KC has the balls to bullshit his way through the questions he gets asked constantly questioning his faith.

Quote:What was my expectation? I honestly thought this was a reasonably
tolerant forum where someone like me could intro himself with the
understanding that, no, we don't agree on many things but, yes, we could
agree to disagree (no matter how strongly), but that *it wouldn't
matter* anyone's particular beliefs *until* such time as someone began a
thread about a particular issue.

God are you still having a fucking cry because this is an intro thread?
This is how shit is done around here, for crying out loud build a fucking bridge, get over it, and answer the damn questions. How about starting with Free Thoughts?

Quote:Then again, true tolerance is tolerating intolerance, and maybe I had completely the wrong expectations for this forum.

If your expectations were that you didn't have to defend your faith then you most certainly had the wrong expectations.
Doors that way ===>

Quote:A simple correction from the community on my expectation would certainly
go a long way in determining whether or not this has just been an
utterly fantastic waste of time.

Son, this isn't Canada. You come here and change to match us, we don't change to match you.

Quote:Unfortunately, it's beginning to look like the a-theists are beginning
to live *down* to this stereotype. It's very, very tiring having to
field responses to assumed and false claims against me from others here
-- to the point that I just posted my previous wall of text.

mean while you are living up to the Christian stereotype perfectly of dodging questions and questioning everyones.. Christianity lets call it.
We (aka us) are sick of stupid theists coming on here and doing just that. Can't defend their faith, same shit different day.

Quote:It's really too bad. I was really looking forward to having some good
debate, but how can you debate angry, uncivil and unreasonable people,
all of whom became that way because of the fact that I simply hold a
different opinion?

dito

Quote:One more thing. After just reading through some of the other recent
intros by those who don't claim to be Christian, perhaps someone could
explain to me why they get an apparent pass at their present spiritual
state but I rhetorically get torn apart?

Because you're a YEC homophobe, you're 10X dumber then them and hence get 10X the abuse.

Quote:Remember, I'm wondering about *civil* discourse, not a non-religious inquisition, especially when you don't know me.

Ohhh boohooo, *sulk* "mommy the mean atheist is being mean to me!"
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How about you stop your sulking, grow a set of balls, drink a cup of concrete because Dr Muffs prescribes you an injection of Harden the Fuck Up.

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