Intro -- from a Christian :)
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12-12-2012, 03:20 AM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2012 06:39 AM by Free Thought.)
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(11-12-2012 08:27 PM)Phil_GA Wrote:  
(09-12-2012 09:55 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  ...

Several reasons:

1) You're an idiot.
2) You're a homophobe
3) You were brainwahsed as a child and are fearful, no.. terrified.. to lose your faith.
4) You are weak willed
5) see point 1.


No you really don't.
Get it through your thick bloody skull. YOU. DO. NOT. HAVE. A. RATIONAL. BASES. OF. WHICH. YOU. BASE. YOUR. FAITH. OFF. THE. BIBLE. IS. NOTHING. BUT. A. CIRCULAR. ARGUMENT. (the bible is right because the bible says it's right) AND. HAS. NO. EVIDENCE.



To answer your last paragraph first, I don't think you can quote me stating that the Bible is my *only* basis of belief. Instead, I believe I said that it is where I *started.*

Now, on to the numbered points:

1. I don't think I would have been called an "idiot" *as quickly* if I hadn't mentioned a particular view on Young Earth Creationism. I say this not because I fear being called names; rather, I'm morbidly fascinated at what it takes to really press someone's buttons. More on this general theme in a moment.

You are right, I don't think I can quote that, mostly because I am far too lazy to look, but that raises the question:
If you only started there, than you must logically have other reasons. So what are they?

Also I am highly dubious that you started with the bibal (yes, pronounced bib al), didn't you say you were raised in the YEC position, thus giving the impression that you were indoctrinated in it and started with your parents, not the bibal?


As I pointed out to Erxomai, responses like Muffs's are likely a conditioned response due to dealing with people like yourself who spend their time defending the indefensible and are generally very ignorant of the in-defensibility of their position, and of the world around.

(11-12-2012 08:27 PM)Phil_GA Wrote:  2. If I'm a homophobe, then I must be the most gay-friendly homophobe on earth, in light of the actual definition of the word (which I've already covered). Again, more on this in a moment.

3. Ok. This observation is so ridiculous in light of what this intro thread demonstrates when someone of faith enters a forum like this, I'm just going to skip to the main point now...
2. You've said previously that you dislike things like gay sexual habits, and are opposed to gay marriage, due to a very dumb reason (al la your thing about it voiding marriage itself, or something like that). To a degree that could be described as homophobia, I would not go that far, I simply call you ignorant of the matter however.

3. No, the point is valid. You expressed that you were raised in the faith, did you not? That, and your ignorance of opposing or contradictory christian stances indicates that you were heavily indoctrinated into the faith, or as Muffs put it "brainwashed", and your attempts at avoiding answering some harder questions does indicate some level of sub-conscious fear of being challenged here.

(11-12-2012 08:27 PM)Phil_GA Wrote:  How is it that I'm the fearful one in all this (the main point of all this) when...

...of my own free will, I decided to enter this forum where I knew people would be against what I believe?

...it is not I who first brought up the concept of sending people to hell, but you people?

...I bring up the concept of being open on the abortion issue but instantly referenced as being essentially pro-life with no caveats?

...I bring up the concept that I'm against gay marriage and that somehow makes me hate all gay people?

...I even mention that I'm a Christian and am told that I have no idea what I'm talking about (i believe that was within the first few pages of this thread) because I haven't given a doctoral thesis on why I believe what I believe?
... You chosen actions are totally irrelevant to the "fearful accusation" from Muffs, you avoid and dodge questions asked of you as if you are afraid of answering the questions and being faced with rebuttals.
....Of course people will bring up hell, you believe in it, and I feel confident in saying that many people here hold the idea that "All beliefs are to be questioned", similar to my own position. If you cannot answer to questions pertaining to hell, admit you have no good answer.
....Didn't you say you were against abortion unless the pregnant woman was at risk (or something to that effect)? At's basically a slightly lenient "pro-life" stance.
....No, given your stated reasons, it makes you ignorant of the issue at hand, and are simply expressing an uneducated position, as I said previously, that could be taken as homophobic, but I shan't go that far.
....Now here is the fun part. I want you to take a look into the history of the bible, look at all the myths it was based on, and have a look at the Documentary Hypothesis while you are at it, and then look at the well over 41,000 + sects of christanity and whatever other religions you can think of and ask yourself "What is the likelihood that my specific interpretation is correct, and all these others are wrong?" Every single one of them claims to be the truth and that the others are wrong, logically all of them must be wrong, at least to some degree. So why do you presume your's are right above others?
Or at least ask yourself if you have the real story here.


(11-12-2012 08:27 PM)Phil_GA Wrote:  I don't think I'm the fearful one here. And given the results thus far in everyone's reactions to my apparent invasion of the forum (!), why should I share with any of you the reasons for why I believe the way I believe?
I'll end this wall of text here with this final comment.


You have stepped into the arena, you've literally no one to blame but yourself if you cannot answer the questions being shot your way. If you posit something to be true, as you do with your god, you had best be ready to step up to the batters position and be ready to defend your assertion, if you cannot do that, withdraw your assertion of truth or withdraw from the arena.

That being said; I cannot help but think their may be some hope of breaking you out of your indoctrination.

As such, here's a suggestion; You and I (or somebody more knowledgeable) step into the Boxing Ring and have a one on one, I (or whomever) asks, and you can answer and vice versa, no interruptions from anybody else, just the two having a civil sparing match, what do you say?

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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12-12-2012, 02:22 PM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(11-12-2012 09:12 PM)Phil_GA Wrote:  It's really too bad. I was really looking forward to having some good debate, but how can you debate angry, uncivil and unreasonable people, all of whom became that way because of the fact that I simply hold a different opinion?
Now, now, don't lump me together with peeps like earmuffs. Have I not been respectful to you from the very beginning of this thread? Did we not have a reasonable and civil conversation so far? Have I not given you the benefit of the doubt several times and waited for you to explain your stance and present your evidence before dismissing your position? Perhaps you did not intend to generalize everyone who participated in this thread, so, once again, I'll wait until you have had a chance to defend yourself.

(12-12-2012 03:20 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  As such, here's a suggestion; You and I (or somebody more knowledgeable) step into the Boxing Ring and have a one on one, I (or whomever) asks, and you can answer and vice versa, no interruptions from anybody else, just the two having a civil sparing match, what do you say?
That's an excellent idea. If you want, Phil_GA, I can open a thread in that section about one of the topics we wanted to discuss.

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12-12-2012, 02:29 PM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
Thanks, I try to come up with a good point or idea when I can.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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12-12-2012, 02:29 PM
Intro -- from a Christian :)
(12-12-2012 02:29 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Thanks, I try to come up with a good point or idea when I can.

Since when?

Drinking Beverage

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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12-12-2012, 02:35 PM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(12-12-2012 02:29 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(12-12-2012 02:29 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Thanks, I try to come up with a good point or idea when I can.

Since when?

Drinking Beverage
He may have been trying. Doesn't mean he's ever been successful.


(Though he has.)

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12-12-2012, 02:41 PM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(12-12-2012 02:22 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(11-12-2012 09:12 PM)Phil_GA Wrote:  It's really too bad. I was really looking forward to having some good debate, but how can you debate angry, uncivil and unreasonable people, all of whom became that way because of the fact that I simply hold a different opinion?
Now, now, don't lump me together with peeps like earmuffs. Have I not been respectful to you from the very beginning of this thread? Did we not have a reasonable and civil conversation so far? Have I not given you the benefit of the doubt several times and waited for you to explain your stance and present your evidence before dismissing your position? Perhaps you did not intend to generalize everyone who participated in this thread, so, once again, I'll wait until you have had a chance to defend yourself.

(12-12-2012 03:20 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  As such, here's a suggestion; You and I (or somebody more knowledgeable) step into the Boxing Ring and have a one on one, I (or whomever) asks, and you can answer and vice versa, no interruptions from anybody else, just the two having a civil sparing match, what do you say?
That's an excellent idea. If you want, Phil_GA, I can open a thread in that section about one of the topics we wanted to discuss.
Wow! A non-emotional, rational response! How did *that* manage to seep into this thread?

(Sarcasm off)

Sure. Let's make a go of it. I'd be happy to spar in a specific thread -- of your choice.

I can't promise immediate responses within hours or what not, but I think the point is to get something specific started. After all, it's getting close to the holidays, especially that *evil* originally-Pagan-and-now-Christian-based holiday, Christmas (do I hear howls yet? *Just* kidding), and I happen to go to one of those really big churches that happens to have a full-scale, high-definition production setup (no, we don't do TV) where I'm pretty deeply involved as a volunteer camera operator (one of several), switcher and director.

Ya'll shouldn't be so fast in writing off Christians the way some of you do. We don't all handle snakes every Sunday, get slain in the spirit, or any other stereotypical thing you might see on TV or otherwise.
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12-12-2012, 02:42 PM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(12-12-2012 02:29 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(12-12-2012 02:29 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Thanks, I try to come up with a good point or idea when I can.

Since when?

Drinking Beverage


I said I try, not that I succeed.


*Yep, straight to Vosur.... I was kinda looking for something to do...

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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12-12-2012, 03:03 PM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
So remember folks, this

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does not equal this

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12-12-2012, 03:23 PM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(12-12-2012 02:41 PM)Phil_GA Wrote:  Sure. Let's make a go of it. I'd be happy to spar in a specific thread -- of your choice.
All right. My choice of topic will be Young Earth Creationism. I've opened a thread here.

(12-12-2012 02:41 PM)Phil_GA Wrote:  I can't promise immediate responses within hours or what not, but I think the point is to get something specific started. After all, it's getting close to the holidays, especially that *evil* originally-Pagan-and-now-Christian-based holiday, Christmas (do I hear howls yet? *Just* kidding), and I happen to go to one of those really big churches that happens to have a full-scale, high-definition production setup (no, we don't do TV) where I'm pretty deeply involved as a volunteer camera operator (one of several), switcher and director.
No problem, take your time.

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12-12-2012, 04:10 PM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
As much as I know that earmuffs despises my very existence, I figured I'd take a shot at answering some of his ... concerns:
(12-12-2012 01:05 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Ah good, I thought you'd gone away. Or should i say I was praying you had gone away? Consider

Sounds like a personal problem to me Smile

Quote:To answer your last paragraph first, I don't think you can quote me
stating that the Bible is my *only* basis of belief. Instead, I believe I
said that it is where I *started.*
Quote:Okay then let me rephrase. The bible if your only source of evidence and the bible is not a credible source of evidence because it is a circular argument "the bible is right because the bible says its right".

It's atheism101.

Wow. We agree. Imagine that.

Quote:1. I don't think I would have been called an "idiot" *as quickly* if I
hadn't mentioned a particular view on Young Earth Creationism. I say
this not because I fear being called names; rather, I'm morbidly
fascinated at what it takes to really press someone's buttons. More on
this general theme in a moment.
Quote:Don't flatter yourself son. Certain things push my buttons, christians, YEC, homophobes or a combination of all three are not among them.
When I say that you're an idiot imagine me saying it whilst laughing. ie: "lol you're such a fucking moron".
Like I'm embarrassed for you because you're so stupid.

It's even more embarrassing to the human race that you'd take a handful out of a veritable smorgasbord of billions of topics and base your biases on someone solely on that handful of topics.

That'd be the equivalent of forming a marriage (I'm using an illustration that's intended to be extremely intimate between humans) with someone solely because they shared your favorite sports team. Now, I must admit -- some of you might operate that one (sorry for stepping on any toes on that one! HA!), but that wouldn't be the wisest and most intelligent means to form a marriage.

Quote: If I'm a homophobe, then I must be the most gay-friendly homophobe on
earth, in light of the actual definition of the word (which I've already
covered). Again, more on this in a moment.
Quote:Sure and I voted for Obama so I'm not a racist.. yeah okay son.
You keep prancing around in your little homophobic state of denial.

First, I don't prance, I skip. Second, I don't feel a need to validate my non-racism by voting for someone who is half-white and at least a quarter Middle Eastern into the White House. Third, at this point, if you can't get your fingers out of your ears and stop essentially saying, "Na, na na, na boo-boo, you hate gays, you hate gays," then there's no point in continuing that particular discussion with you.

You've already shut me out.

Quote:3. Ok. This observation is so ridiculous in light of what this intro
thread demonstrates when someone of faith enters a forum like this, I'm
just going to skip to the main point now...
Quote:Ridiculous?
Coincidence that Christian children grow up christian, Muslim children grow up Muslim, Hindu children grow up and migrate to New Zealand??
I think not!

No, the ridiculous part is that someone who grows up in one environment is somehow destined (in your apparent opinion) to remain in that same thought process forever. For me, I'm glad that's not the case, because I'm glad I'm a much different person now than I was in my 20s Smile

Quote:How is it that I'm the fearful one in all this (the main point of all this) when...



...of my own free will, I decided to enter this forum where I knew people would be against what I believe?

Quote:You mistake bravery with bible bashing.

And I think once again you do understand neither the phrase you're using ("Bible bashing") nor my intent, even though my intent has already been made pretty clear.

If I wanted to come onto this forum and truly "Bible bash," then I would have expected myself to introduce copious amounts of text containing Bible verses without end, thereby "bashing" one over the proverbial head with the extensive knowledge I would be claiming to possess.

Yet, I have done nothing of the sort. Kinda makes your point here moot.

Quote:...it is not I who first brought up the concept of sending people to hell, but you people?
Quote:You're the Christian, you actually believe it so..

Please specifically reference in this thread where I have ever stated that that I (1) have the authority to send someone to hell and (2) that this is my intention with coming onto this forum.

In fact, you will find the opposite, where I said exactly the opposite with respect to this issue.

Quote:...I bring up the concept of being open on the abortion issue but
instantly referenced as being essentially pro-life with no caveats?
Quote:You said you were pro-life.. Like if my memory serves me well, your actual words "I'm pro-life".
Are you now saying you are pro-choice?

Once again, you misquote me. I specifically stated that "I'm pro-choice for life," as that is presently the only way I can explain being essentially pro-life with the caveat that if my wife's life were in danger with an unborn child, her life would take priority, which could necessitate an abortion (frankly, as much as I don't like saying that).

Quote:...I bring up the concept that I'm against gay marriage and that somehow makes me hate all gay people?
Quote:It makes you an ignorant homophobe.
You know you said more then just anti-gay marriage. If my memory serves me well again you were also against gay sex and pretty much gay relations as a whole. But say it shouldn't be illegal simply because it's hard to police...
Thus, homophobe.

Wrong again (for the third or fourth time, speaking only on the homophobe issue). The actual definition of homophobe speaks to having a fear of individuals who are homosexual. I've specifically denied that; of course, you can always keep those fingers in the ears and yell and scream that I'm not really saying what I'm saying, but you're going to get a serious build-up of wax on those fingers Smile

Quote:...I even mention that I'm a Christian and am told that I have no idea what I'm talking about
Quote:Well you're a Christian, so no you don't have any idea what you are talking about.

OK, and you don't believe in Christianity, so you're a loser.

Makes just as much sense, doesn't it?

(End sarcasm)

It must be very nice to live in a blissfully ignorant world where if someone speaks a particular word label to you, you can conveniently close them off simply because they used a singular word. God forbid (oh, wait! You don't believe in God!) someone misspeaks -- you might cut them off for a lifetime based on something *you* misheard them say.

Quote:I don't think I'm the fearful one here. And given the results thus far
in everyone's reactions to my apparent invasion of the forum (!), why
should I share with any of you the reasons for why I believe the way I
believe?
Quote:Lol, get aloud of this guy TTA, he thinks we are afraid of him...

LOL!

I haven't seen anything that gives evidence to the contrary. Defensiveness is almost always a sign of weakness/fear.

Quote:You can't honestly expect to, as a Christian, come onto an ATHEIST forum and not have to defend your beliefs.
God damn you are a bigger idiot then I initially thought.

And again, you've completely missed the point of much of what I've said throughout this intro posting. I have *never* said that I would categorically *not* have to defend my beliefs. *If* I did, that would truly be monumentally asinine.

Quote:Is it going to change your viewpoint? Are you going to be any less
accusatory in my specific direction than you already have been?
Quote:I'll get a good laugh out of it.

That makes two of us.

Quote:It's funny.
Quote:Thank you, I try to put a little bit of effort in.

Oh, don't let me stop you. Irrational, emotionally-based a-theists are rather fun to witness getting so upset about differences of opinion, especially when most of those opinions don't really mean squat in the grand scheme of things.

But, in your specific case, do go on.

Quote:I've already stated that I didn't originally come onto this forum to convert anyone. Yet, I'm being treated as if I am.
Quote:We're not asking you to convert, we're simply asking if you can back up your beliefs or are you just another idiotic sheep?
At least KC has the balls to bullshit his way through the questions he gets asked constantly questioning his faith.

And I don't think I've said anything in this thread that disagrees with this sentiment.

Quote:What was my expectation? I honestly thought this was a reasonably
tolerant forum where someone like me could intro himself with the
understanding that, no, we don't agree on many things but, yes, we could
agree to disagree (no matter how strongly), but that *it wouldn't
matter* anyone's particular beliefs *until* such time as someone began a
thread about a particular issue.
Quote:God are you still having a fucking cry because this is an intro thread?
This is how shit is done around here, for crying out loud build a fucking bridge, get over it, and answer the damn questions. How about starting with Free Thoughts?
OK, first, quit calling on God if you don't believe in him/her/it. Smile

Next, your blissful ignorance is showing once again. I also have my own standards and rules on a forum, and I don't think that some discussions can be *thoughtfully parlayed* on an intro thread.

In most forums across the Internet, intro threads are just that -- a way to essentially get to know someone.

And, guess what? You (and everyone else) knows (1) I'm a Christian (which still has yet to be defined, incidentally); (2) I'm essentially a qualified pro-lifer; (3) I'm against gay marriage; (4) I'm a Young Earth Creationist.

Now, just that first point ("Christian") could take up multitudinous threads to deal with, and even then, my thoughts aren't going to represent even what a billion folks (I think that's the current count) who claim to be part of the larger belief system of Christianity believe -- Roman Catholics.

So, no. I don't think it's fair to the *topics* to simply blurt out a few lines in an attempt to fully explain each *in an intro thread.*

So, yes. I will continue whining about that Smile

Quote:Then again, true tolerance is tolerating intolerance, and maybe I had completely the wrong expectations for this forum.
Quote:If your expectations were that you didn't have to defend your faith then you most certainly had the wrong expectations.
Doors that way ===>

Nope, never claimed that, and yup, I definitely see the door Smile

Quote:A simple correction from the community on my expectation would certainly
go a long way in determining whether or not this has just been an
utterly fantastic waste of time.
Quote:Son, this isn't Canada. You come here and change to match us, we don't change to match you.

Now that this is at least the third time I've heard you use the term, "son," part of me wants to yell out,

WHO'S YOUR DADDY?

*Ahem*

Change? Who said anything about change? There's nothing about change per the forum's FAQ.

Quote:Unfortunately, it's beginning to look like the a-theists are beginning
to live *down* to this stereotype. It's very, very tiring having to
field responses to assumed and false claims against me from others here
-- to the point that I just posted my previous wall of text.
Quote:mean while you are living up to the Christian stereotype perfectly of dodging questions and questioning everyones.. Christianity lets call it.
We (aka us) are sick of stupid theists coming on here and doing just that. Can't defend their faith, same shit different day.


Quote:It's really too bad. I was really looking forward to having some good

debate, but how can you debate angry, uncivil and unreasonable people,
all of whom became that way because of the fact that I simply hold a
different opinion?

dito

Quote:One more thing. After just reading through some of the other recent
intros by those who don't claim to be Christian, perhaps someone could
explain to me why they get an apparent pass at their present spiritual
state but I rhetorically get torn apart?

Because you're a YEC homophobe, you're 10X dumber then them and hence get 10X the abuse.

I'll reference what I said, above. Don't freakin' trip out so easily over word labels. People are made up of a lot more than two measly issues that you can't seem to get past yourself.

Quote:Remember, I'm wondering about *civil* discourse, not a non-religious inquisition, especially when you don't know me.
Quote:Ohhh boohooo, *sulk* "mommy the mean atheist is being mean to me!"
[Image: toddler-tantrum.jpg]

How about you stop your sulking, grow a set of balls, drink a cup of concrete because Dr Muffs prescribes you an injection of Harden the Fuck Up.


Just as soon as you get over yourself and quit worrying about some anti-gay marriage, pro-lifer young-earth creationist whom you've never met before and has absolutely no intention of converting you to his viewpoints.

(No, I'm not really basing my actions on whether or not you're going to be civil; you've already answered that issue for me)

Really, I'm not all that bad Smile
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