Intro -- from a Christian :)
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12-12-2012, 04:33 PM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(12-12-2012 03:20 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(11-12-2012 08:27 PM)Phil_GA Wrote:  To answer your last paragraph first, I don't think you can quote me stating that the Bible is my *only* basis of belief. Instead, I believe I said that it is where I *started.*

Now, on to the numbered points:

1. I don't think I would have been called an "idiot" *as quickly* if I hadn't mentioned a particular view on Young Earth Creationism. I say this not because I fear being called names; rather, I'm morbidly fascinated at what it takes to really press someone's buttons. More on this general theme in a moment.

You are right, I don't think I can quote that, mostly because I am far too lazy to look, but that raises the question:
If you only started there, than you must logically have other reasons. So what are they?

I have already stated my intent. Garnering other viewpoints and maybe learn a thing or two (like I had already learned about a-theism).

Quote:Also I am highly dubious that you started with the bibal (yes, pronounced bib al), didn't you say you were raised in the YEC position, thus giving the impression that you were indoctrinated in it and started with your parents, not the bibal?

No. Actually, I began my viewpoint under the auspices that the earth was somewhere north of 15 billion years old. Over several years' time, I changed my viewpoint to the young earth creationist perspective, which was actually different than my parent's perspective.

Quote:As I pointed out to Erxomai, responses like Muffs's are likely a conditioned response due to dealing with people like yourself who spend their time defending the indefensible and are generally very ignorant of the in-defensibility of their position, and of the world around.

To a point, this is understood. I just don't normally start judging anyone I first meet until they give me explicit evidence that they're really off their rocker.

But, to each his/her own.

Quote:
(11-12-2012 08:27 PM)Phil_GA Wrote:  2. If I'm a homophobe, then I must be the most gay-friendly homophobe on earth, in light of the actual definition of the word (which I've already covered). Again, more on this in a moment.

3. Ok. This observation is so ridiculous in light of what this intro thread demonstrates when someone of faith enters a forum like this, I'm just going to skip to the main point now...
2. You've said previously that you dislike things like gay sexual habits, and are opposed to gay marriage, due to a very dumb reason (al la your thing about it voiding marriage itself, or something like that). To a degree that could be described as homophobia, I would not go that far, I simply call you ignorant of the matter however.

3. No, the point is valid. You expressed that you were raised in the faith, did you not? That, and your ignorance of opposing or contradictory christian stances indicates that you were heavily indoctrinated into the faith, or as Muffs put it "brainwashed", and your attempts at avoiding answering some harder questions does indicate some level of sub-conscious fear of being challenged here.

Rationally-speaking, I don't see how ignorance of a point is or should be equated to being heavily indoctrinated with some point.

Personally, I do my best to suspend any previous belief if I'm going to take on a new thought. I kind of have to, else the new viewpoint doesn't stand a chance and learning would never happen.

Quote:
(11-12-2012 08:27 PM)Phil_GA Wrote:  How is it that I'm the fearful one in all this (the main point of all this) when...

...of my own free will, I decided to enter this forum where I knew people would be against what I believe?

...it is not I who first brought up the concept of sending people to hell, but you people?

...I bring up the concept of being open on the abortion issue but instantly referenced as being essentially pro-life with no caveats?

...I bring up the concept that I'm against gay marriage and that somehow makes me hate all gay people?

...I even mention that I'm a Christian and am told that I have no idea what I'm talking about (i believe that was within the first few pages of this thread) because I haven't given a doctoral thesis on why I believe what I believe?
... You chosen actions are totally irrelevant to the "fearful accusation" from Muffs, you avoid and dodge questions asked of you as if you are afraid of answering the questions and being faced with rebuttals.

The operative phrase you've just used is, "as if." Not afraid of answering questions, but am afraid of treating a response without the dignity of more than a short answer if it deserves such. And I think these hefty questions do.

Quote:....Of course people will bring up hell, you believe in it, and I feel confident in saying that many people here hold the idea that "All beliefs are to be questioned", similar to my own position. If you cannot answer to questions pertaining to hell, admit you have no good answer.

Yes, I admit to believing in hell, and yes, my particular belief system pretty much demands it. However, the *rationale* for it is a completely different issue, and to this day I continue questioning said rationale.

But you're falling into the propter hoc fallacy. Just because I, per se, do not have an immediate answer to your question, it does not necessarily follow that I *cannot* provide one. While I do have a few answers pertaining to hell, some of those answers are built on other concepts that have to be understood to have a good *overall* understanding of hell.

This is that "dignity of a longer answer" to which I was referring.

Quote:....Didn't you say you were against abortion unless the pregnant woman was at risk (or something to that effect)? At's basically a slightly lenient "pro-life" stance.

Yes. I can agree with that.

Quote:....No, given your stated reasons, it makes you ignorant of the issue at hand, and are simply expressing an uneducated position, as I said previously, that could be taken as homophobic, but I shan't go that far.
....Now here is the fun part. I want you to take a look into the history of the bible, look at all the myths it was based on, and have a look at the Documentary Hypothesis while you are at it, and then look at the well over 41,000 + sects of christanity and whatever other religions you can think of and ask yourself "What is the likelihood that my specific interpretation is correct, and all these others are wrong?" Every single one of them claims to be the truth and that the others are wrong, logically all of them must be wrong, at least to some degree. So why do you presume your's are right above others?
Or at least ask yourself if you have the real story here.

Now *there's* a very good, very specific question. Here's how the logic goes, because I don't think you've taken it out far enough:

Going beyond the question of which religions are claiming to be true (along with the assumption that truth is self-evident and, therefore, knowable), let's say that the Grand Peanut Butter Faith is true, and now we're arguing over interpretations that Peanut Butter is really either chunky or smooth.

Therefore, we have the following posits:

1. They are both wrong;
2. One is wrong, therefore the other is right;
3. Not enough evidence has come to light, so it's a net-net gray area, for the time being.

Now, on the larger question of which *religion* is correct (because at least the Big Three ™ - Judaism, Islam, and Christianity -- claim to be exclusive in their claims), only one of the following can logically be true:

1. One is right and all others are wrong;
2. They are all wrong

In my experience, I don't think the issue is really whether or not the truth is out there, but whether or not the truth is accepted/tolerated.

Quote:
(11-12-2012 08:27 PM)Phil_GA Wrote:  I don't think I'm the fearful one here. And given the results thus far in everyone's reactions to my apparent invasion of the forum (!), why should I share with any of you the reasons for why I believe the way I believe?
I'll end this wall of text here with this final comment.


You have stepped into the arena, you've literally no one to blame but yourself if you cannot answer the questions being shot your way. If you posit something to be true, as you do with your god, you had best be ready to step up to the batters position and be ready to defend your assertion, if you cannot do that, withdraw your assertion of truth or withdraw from the arena.

That being said; I cannot help but think their may be some hope of breaking you out of your indoctrination.

As such, here's a suggestion; You and I (or somebody more knowledgeable) step into the Boxing Ring and have a one on one, I (or whomever) asks, and you can answer and vice versa, no interruptions from anybody else, just the two having a civil sparing match, what do you say?
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12-12-2012, 07:28 PM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...llenge-you

I Challenged you because I would like to discuss with you. I hope you accept and choose an appropriate topic that we can have a meaningful discussion.

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12-12-2012, 09:44 PM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
tl;dr

I'm gonna guess you attempted what one could only assume was an attempt at wit.
To which I'm gonna respond with my own assorted attempt at wit when applicable with a nice side helping of "you're a fucking homophobic moron".

Then I'm gonna mention something about how yes you are an idiot and a homophobe with assorted quotes of you to back it up.
Then I'm gonna continue to not care that your feelings are hurt by the big bad meany atheist and tell you to harden up.

Just thought I'd save myself some time as YEC homophobic morons are not worth the effort that would be required to answer your post.
Instead I will continue to laugh and pity you and question why Vosur and Ato continue to waste their time of the same fucktards like this week in and week out when they know that whatever these cunts come up with would not even be close to holding up as evidence let alone evidence that will differ your opinion.
And when was the last time anyone on this forum changed the mind of one of these deluded fucktards?
Never is the correct answer.
Drinking Beverage

If you want me I'll be over there, pity-ing you from a distance.

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12-12-2012, 10:08 PM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(12-12-2012 09:44 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  tl;dr

I'm gonna guess you attempted what one could only assume was an attempt at wit.
To which I'm gonna respond with my own assorted attempt at wit when applicable with a nice side helping of "you're a fucking homophobic moron".

Then I'm gonna mention something about how yes you are an idiot and a homophobe with assorted quotes of you to back it up.
Then I'm gonna continue to not care that your feelings are hurt by the big bad meany atheist and tell you to harden up.

Just thought I'd save myself some time as YEC homophobic morons are not worth the effort that would be required to answer your post.
Instead I will continue to laugh and pity you and question why Vosur and Ato continue to waste their time of the same fucktards like this week in and week out when they know that whatever these cunts come up with would not even be close to holding up as evidence let alone evidence that will differ your opinion.
And when was the last time anyone on this forum changed the mind of one of these deluded fucktards?
Never is the correct answer.
Drinking Beverage

If you want me I'll be over there, pity-ing you from a distance.
"want me." Laughat Hehehehehe!

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12-12-2012, 11:05 PM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2012 11:49 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(12-12-2012 04:10 PM)Phil_GA Wrote:  Really, I'm not all that bad Smile

You seem all right to me. A bit delusional perhaps, but who the fuck ain't. Hell I'm my own personal Jesus. The fuck's up with that. Wink

(12-12-2012 04:10 PM)Phil_GA Wrote:  As much as I know that earmuffs despises my very existence, I figured I'd take a shot at answering some of his ... concerns:

You're taking some 20 yo MuffinHead far too seriously, I don't.

(12-12-2012 04:10 PM)Phil_GA Wrote:  First, I don't prance, I skip.

Girly just sashays and does his little turn on the catwalk.




As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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13-12-2012, 04:21 AM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
I think you will find I am 21 Girly, not 20.

Get it right old man.

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13-12-2012, 10:21 AM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(12-12-2012 09:44 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Instead I will continue to laugh and pity you and question why Vosur and
Ato continue to waste their time of the same fucktards like this week
in and week out when they know that whatever these cunts come up with
would not even be close to holding up as evidence let alone evidence that will differ your opinion.
I'll answer you with the lyrics of this song. Cool

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13-12-2012, 10:25 AM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
..... Considering those lyrics...

Are you trying to tell Muffs you love him?




I'm all for equality and stuff, but get that shit outta here!

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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13-12-2012, 10:27 AM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
(13-12-2012 10:25 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  ..... Considering those lyrics...

Are you trying to tell Muffs you love him?




I'm all for equality and stuff, but get that shit outta here!
Actually, I was wondering if he was trying to tell the OP something. In which case OP'd've been scared shitless to go into the boxing ring with Vosur. I mean, he's no homophobe or nuthin', but you can never be too sure... Blink

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13-12-2012, 10:30 AM
RE: Intro -- from a Christian :)
You make an excellent argument.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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