Introduce Yourself HERE!
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17-12-2010, 11:16 PM
RE: Introduce Yourself HERE!
(17-12-2010 09:03 PM)mBear Wrote:  I'm a student in Manitoba, Canada, studying Cell and Molecular Biology with a minor in Microbiology. I've been an atheist for quite a while now, though I haven't told my family yet.

That's three of us Tobans now! Welcome mBear!

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18-12-2010, 08:29 AM
 
RE: Introduce Yourself HERE!
Hi community. I'm Lukisod.

I'm a soldier in the Canadian Forces. I've been an atheist ever since I had a choice in the matter. I was a Jehovah's Witness before that, and I'm a Pastafarian when I'm in Afghanistan, because apparently atheists aren't allowed in foxholes.

I'm not educated past high school. Who needs education anymore? I find Google works much better than the education system these days anyways. Which coincidentally, is how I found this place Big Grin
18-12-2010, 10:45 AM
RE: Introduce Yourself HERE!
Quote:I'm not educated past high school. Who needs education anymore?
The ones who want to get jobs. But if one can make a living without having to study for years, I'm happy for the one. And by the way, one can't find everything from the internet, but that's why libraries exist.

Wellcomes!

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18-12-2010, 11:37 AM
RE: Introduce Yourself HERE!
(18-12-2010 10:45 AM)Kikko Wrote:  
Quote:I'm not educated past high school. Who needs education anymore?
The ones who want to get jobs. But if one can make a living without having to study for years, I'm happy for the one. And by the way, one can't find everything from the internet, but that's why libraries exist.

Wellcomes!

The era of "you need an education to get a job" is gone. Employers no longer favor educated employees over un-educated ones. The only education you need is the one realevant to the job, and most jobs you can get that education through experience and on the job training.

If you want a job that requires a degree, go get one. But if it doesn't, don't waste your money (or time).

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18-12-2010, 11:58 AM
RE: Introduce Yourself HERE!
Quote:The era of "you need an education to get a job" is gone.

You cannot be serious. The era of "you need an education to get a job" has just started.

Thanks to globalization, modern supply chain management and information technology, and relatively cheap costs of transportation, western countries have transformed from mostly manufacturing and industrialized economies to largely service economies. There are still some manufacturing jobs in the US, in Canada, and in western Europe but, at least in the US, if you don't have at least a 4 year college degree the number of employment opportunities that don't involve driving a truck, pushing a mop or wearing a paper hat and asking "do you want fries with that?" are becoming increasingly limited.

You can always opt for self employment, like Stark does, but the percentage number of people who actually make a go of that are extremely low, and most of them started out working for someone else and getting some real world experience that way. The odds of graduating high school and starting a successful business that you can support yourself on are extremely low. Yes, there are people who do it, but the numbers who do it and succeed are probably dwarfed by the numbers who fail.

When I started college in the mid-1980s, you could not get a decent job anywhere without a high school diploma. By the mid-1990s, if you did not have at least a college degree, you were not getting through the door of most companies. Today, most people I see coming out of school are quickly going back for Masters degrees just so they can have a fighting chance in the workforce.

No offense Stark, but that comment is way, way off base. In your world an education may not be necessary but in the world at large, at least the western world, you're getting no where without one.

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18-12-2010, 12:20 PM
RE: Introduce Yourself HERE!
Quote:The era of "you need an education to get a job" is gone. Employers no longer favor educated employees over un-educated ones. The only education you need is the one realevant to the job, and most jobs you can get that education through experience and on the job training.
That kind of employers don't seem to have spreaded to Finland yet. Even to the cashiers job in a grocery store the eployers favor people with business education and/or earlier experience. One can get a job at a warehouse or a post office and other such places, but it's better not the expect the same pay as an educated person can get. Indentures are good.
I think education is expected when it's free and one'll get (small) state support for studying so that the one won't have to stress so much about money when studying.

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18-12-2010, 12:33 PM
RE: Introduce Yourself HERE!
No offence taken. The fact is, in the real world, most jobs don't require a masters, nor could one even be applicable. I wasn't saying that you don't need an education for a job that requires one. I was saying that you don't need an education to find a job. That education being classroom of course. When you talk about Service Economies, does that cover trades? Because trades is the place to get a job. There's plenty of them (I've heard many people argue that point, but strangely, people who are actually looking for a job in a trade always agree that those jobs are abundant for someone willing to work).

Think of it this way. I was only self employed as of a year and a half ago. Before that I was a slipform concrete paver operator. All learned on the job. After a couple years, my company started sending me to the states every winter to go on courses, but every penny was paid by them (and they paid me wages as well just to go). I also have my welding ticket. It didn't cost me a penny. Plenty of sweat and hard work, but again, all company paid (different company) because I was willing to work for it. THATS on the job training. I don't think that you don't have to learn, but I do think that it's unnescessary to go and pay for something, when you could get paid to do it instead.

I had a young man work for me on my farm for a few months. I paid him minimum wage, and he was basically a farm hand. He left here with enough knowledge to be accepted into a paid apprentice program for carpentry, that is usually given to people who've taken courses. They said it didn't matter to them where he learned his base skills, so long as he learned them. This was a kid straight from high school. He was smart, motivated, and willing to work hard.

Lets also not forget that it won't be long before a manufacturing economy returns, and it will favor the small factory. Transportation costs are skyrocketing quickly. "relatively cheap transportation" just won't last. And it's not going to be long before it becomes more ecinomically feasable to have smaller factories, spread out to supply locally. This means jobs will return to the western world. But that's all in the future (short term future in my opinion).

My point about employers is this. More of them are realizing that if the job they are hiring for doesn't require a degree, it's less expensive to hire someone without one, and train them on the job. The people with the degrees expect to be paid accordingly (rightfully so), but the people with no degree are willing to work their way up the ladder. Cheaper for both the employer and the employee. I don't argue that a job may require an education. I arggue that you don't require an education to get a good job.

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18-12-2010, 12:40 PM
RE: Introduce Yourself HERE!
What you're describing and what I see happening in the world are two vastly different things. The competition for jobs right now is huge. Outside of union jobs, salaries are not determined by arbitrary factors like how much education you have, they are determined by the laws of supply and demand. Employers are not paying people more because they have a Masters degree. However, when you have one job and you've 5,000 applicants, employers are absolutely sifting through those applications by looking at experience and education. Even for entry level jobs they are looking at education.

And no, not every job requires an education but even the trades are becoming more and more competitive. And, as you allude to above, most of them will require that you go back to school and get your degree. True, it's always better when someone else pays for it - I have a Master degree that was done on my employers expense - but the fact is that without an education, you simply are not going anywhere.

As for manufacturing jobs coming back to the west because of transportation costs, I would not hold my breath waiting on that one. A majority of those jobs are long, long gone and they are simply not being repatriated to the west. The cost of transportation does not off set the costs of labor. And, there are some cheap labor sources, like Mexico, that are reasonably close to the US and Canada.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
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18-12-2010, 12:58 PM
RE: Introduce Yourself HERE!
I guess the statment that you've made (twice now) that, "without an education you simply are not going anywhere" is what really makes my hair stand on end. That's because it's just simply not true. I am somewhere, and so, I am proof that you can get somewhere sans education. And I don't have to be the exception to the rule either. I am not exceptionally smart, I just have a drive to achieve my goals. Also, and perhaps more importantly, my goals are reasonable. Don't mistake that for small either. Some are quite lofty, but still attainable.

What that takes is desire, and hard work. If you have these qualities, apply within.



No university transcripts required.

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18-12-2010, 01:10 PM
RE: Introduce Yourself HERE!
Hey BnW, this is a potentially very interesting discussion. Would you mind if I moved it to a separate thread?

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