Introduction in the form of a question about atheist attitudes about death
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08-10-2016, 04:38 PM
RE: Introduction in the form of a question about atheist attitudes about death
(08-10-2016 03:01 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(08-10-2016 02:31 PM)Mirkwoodz Wrote:  And, to Szuchow. Adding the phrase "I mean it as a compliment." did not make it phrased as a compliment? I think I'm a touch off, and most people are, which is what makes people unique.

If you need to add phrase "I mean it as a compliment" then it is a safe bet that whatever you said did not sound like compliment.

I think it's kind of like a cultural thing and also on the Internet you can't see facial expressions/body language. In the US, at least where I'm from, we often say things as joke and then add and I mean that as a compliment Big Grin. For example if my friend was being silly I might say something like "You are a total weirdo." And then add with a smile, "And I mean that as a compliment."
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08-10-2016, 05:19 PM
RE: Introduction in the form of a question about atheist attitudes about death
G'day James, and welcome to the forum. Smile

(07-10-2016 11:44 PM)Mirkwoodz Wrote:  OK, my name is James and I'm an atheist agnostic.

I'm not sure what you mean by this self-description? According to Merriam-Webster.com, an agnostic is defined as a person who does not have a definite belief about whether [the Christian] God exists or not. Someone described as an atheist is a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of [the Christian]God, or any/all gods for that matter. Atheism is a singular definitive position, like pregnancy. One can't be slightly pregnant or totally pregnant.

So... the two terms are incompatible, or self contradictory. As I understand your stance, you still believe that supernatural entities—such as "gods"—could possibly exist in the real world. But... you cannot be an agnostic and an atheist simultaneously (in a purely religious sense).

Quote:Anyway - I'm not really sure yet where the people in this forum are coming from, but most seem to be good natured... but maybe a little... off? Hope that doesn't offend anyone. I mean it as a compliment.

If you're "really not sure" where we're coming from in this forum, then I'm guessing your atheistic viewpoint is not fully confirmed, as it's more than obvious what our collective rationale is. I'm also unsure as to what you mean by saying we're "a little off". Personally, I read that as a derogatory description—more so as you admit to not fully understanding where we're coming from. It could also imply that you're not as one with our forum's mindset, or that you disagree with some of our tenets.

Quote:Anyway, I'm curious if any of you can relate to the question that's been on my mind for a while. As an atheist, does someone's death not bother you much?

No: death as such doesn't particularly concern me. As you say, it's inevitable. So there's no point wasting our living time worrying about it—although I would be concerned and affected more deeply if my children died young, and I outlived them. Death is a deeply personal, individual thing, and affects all people differently, as it does their grieving process. It's acknowledged that many men express more grief at the death of their dogs than at the deaths of their (elderly) parents for example.

Quote:So what do you think? Anyone agree with me, or think this could be a common atheist trait?

I agree with your thoughts—broadly speaking—but they may need a little... uh... fine tuning? It's my opinion that death in all its guises can affect an atheist or a theist in exactly the same way, or each in a totally opposite way. I'm guessing here, but I think you still have some reassuring "life-after-death" hangovers from your earlier religiosity?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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08-10-2016, 06:56 PM
RE: Introduction in the form of a question about atheist attitudes about death
I find such generalizations to have little value. Grief is an individual response, and has too many factors in each instance.
For example, your friend, where did the grief end and the depression begin? What was his relationship with his father like? What were his drinking habits and patterns before his loss?
There are too many variables to bother lumping people into boxes.
I did two years of binge drinking myself after my father died, then quit completely. I was never a theist, neither was he.
I do believe that people grow and change. My mom's death a few years back was easier to process. I had far more experience with loss. I had anticipated her death for quite a while.
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09-10-2016, 12:27 AM
RE: Introduction in the form of a question about atheist attitudes about death
(08-10-2016 04:38 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(08-10-2016 03:01 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  If you need to add phrase "I mean it as a compliment" then it is a safe bet that whatever you said did not sound like compliment.

I think it's kind of like a cultural thing and also on the Internet you can't see facial expressions/body language. In the US, at least where I'm from, we often say things as joke and then add and I mean that as a compliment Big Grin. For example if my friend was being silly I might say something like "You are a total weirdo." And then add with a smile, "And I mean that as a compliment."

It's certainly possible. There is a wide breach separating US and Polish cultures and my understanding of English tend to be literal.

Also compliments here are more straight forwarded, no one has to add that one should be considered as such Smile

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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09-10-2016, 01:46 AM
RE: Introduction in the form of a question about atheist attitudes about death
My mother died when I was 14.
My father died when I was 42.

My father had a full life and I got to talk to him as an adult about many things, I felt the loss of not being able to talk to him, but I knew enough about him to know what he would think on any given subject. In my mind his death was okay and even expected.

My mother died when I was an adolescent, after 4 years of suffering from ALS. It's been 30 years and I can write about and even think about it, but to talk out loud about my mother's death, brings it back to now, and brings tears to my eyes and makes my voice "wobble"...It's actually a bit annoying (if you could imagine that), because it's an involuntary response, experiences and memories burned into my head a long time ago at a time when it was still forming.

Our brains were built for survival, not logic, what makes atheists seem off? Probably that we have learned to do both, and I will take that as a compliment.

A friend in the hole

"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Captain Picard
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09-10-2016, 04:20 AM
RE: Introduction in the form of a question about atheist attitudes about death
Considering personal death:

With a very serious heart condition the concept of personal death may sit on your shoulder, grinning at you. If you let it get to you life is less than worth living anyway. Luckily I just ignore it and it fades into insignificance in time.

But, before I got my implant, there sre moments when I could feel the "buzzing" of tachycardia, my heart going off at 200+ bmp - often a precursor to death. Then comes the feeling of blushing, then a ringing in the ears then unconsciousness - all indicative of insufficient blood supply to the brain.

Been there a few times, you learn to lie down before you fall down, if you are lucky enough to have time. Done both. Luckily being horizontal increases supply to the head and can, at least, prevent brain damage if your heart gets back to normal in time.

The implant helps, but not 100% reliably. It's gonna happen for real, one day. I know and accept.

Thus my tee-shirt design: "Death? / Overrated. / Took a look / didn't fancy what I saw / came back."

Hmm, thoughts on new design: "Death? / Took a quick look / no lighted tunnel / no after-life in sight. / Not surprised. / Came back.

Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
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09-10-2016, 04:22 AM
RE: Introduction in the form of a question about atheist attitudes about death
Considering personal death:

With a very serious heart condition the concept of personal death may sit on your shoulder, grinning at you. If you let it get to you life is less than worth living anyway. Luckily I just ignore it and it fades into insignificance in time.

But, before I got my implant, there were moments when I could feel the "buzzing" of tachycardia, my heart going off at 200+ bmp - often a precursor to death for cardiac arrythmia sufferers. Then comes the feeling of blushing, then a ringing in the ears then unconsciousness - all indicative of insufficient blood supply to the brain.

Been there a few times, you learn to lie down before you fall down, if you are lucky enough to have time. Done both. Luckily being horizontal increases supply to the head and can, at least, prevent brain damage if your heart gets back to normal in time.

The implant helps, but not 100% reliably. It's gonna happen for real, one day. I know and accept.

Thus my tee-shirt design: "Death? / Overrated. / Took a look / didn't fancy what I saw / came back."

Hmm, thoughts on new design: "Death? / Took a quick look / no lighted tunnel / no after-life in sight. / Not surprised. / Came back.

Big Grin

Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
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09-10-2016, 11:17 AM
RE: Introduction in the form of a question about atheist attitudes about death
(07-10-2016 11:44 PM)Mirkwoodz Wrote:  Anyway - I'm not really sure yet where the people in this forum are coming from, but most seem to be good natured... but maybe a little... off?

We're as cultured as month-old yogurt! Hobo

Quote:As an atheist, does someone's death not bother you much?

As others have said, there's a wide variety of reactions and it has precious little to do with religion. There is the false hope that religion provides that your loved ones have "gone to a better place." Unless they didn't believe and then it's downright unhelpful with the grieving process.

It sounds like my reaction is similar to yours. I miss the people who are gone but they would not want me wasting my life grieving for them.

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Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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09-10-2016, 11:27 AM
RE: Introduction in the form of a question about atheist attitudes about death
(09-10-2016 11:17 AM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(07-10-2016 11:44 PM)Mirkwoodz Wrote:  Anyway - I'm not really sure yet where the people in this forum are coming from, but most seem to be good natured... but maybe a little... off?

We're as cultured as month-old yogurt! Hobo

Quote:As an atheist, does someone's death not bother you much?

As others have said, there's a wide variety of reactions and it has precious little to do with religion. There is the false hope that religion provides that your loved ones have "gone to a better place." Unless they didn't believe and then it's downright unhelpful with the grieving process.

It sounds like my reaction is similar to yours. I miss the people who are gone but they would not want me wasting my life grieving for them.

Actually, believers have it worse. They have to pretend that the dead person is sitting up in the sky and all is better now. So they can't really freely express their grief, which includes anger. Grief is a process and if you suppress any part of it there will be lingering issues. The religious babble is not at all helpful.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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09-10-2016, 11:29 AM
RE: Introduction in the form of a question about atheist attitudes about death
Show me a group of people that are not a little "off" and I'll show you a group of dishonest , passive aggressive, wishy washy, two-faced cunts.
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