Invasive Species
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22-04-2013, 07:46 PM
RE: Invasive Species
(21-04-2013 06:36 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(21-04-2013 06:28 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  So far I've removed/culled/killed nearly 500 in the last three years since they showed up here.

What do you all think?
I can only speak for myself, but I think that makes you a bloody mass murderer Dodgy

Did you know that a species of jellyfish (that you guys, brought our way!) nearly took out all the life in our Black Sea?

"A population of unassuming comb jellyfish was sucked into the ballast of a U.S. tanker and shipped halfway around the world in 1993, where it was unceremoniously dumped into the Black Sea when the tanker discharged its ballast water.

This seemingly innocuous event caused one of the most alarming species invasions in European history. At their peak in the mid-1990s, the comb jelly invaders made up 90 percent of living organisms in the Black Sea — the sheer weight of the invasive population exceeded the weight of the world’s entire fish catch. The jellyfish destroyed the Black Sea’s commercial fishing industry and cost thousands of jobs."

Can't help it that you feel that way, I prefer to look at it as preserving our local fisheries.

"You guys" is quite the generalization. I can assure you I had nothing to do with it.

The discharging of ballast water was also responsible for the Zebra Mussel entering the Great Lakes and Mississippi River and causing enormous harm to the existing fish and invertebrate populations. http://www.umesc.usgs.gov/invasive_speci...ssels.html

"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the shoreline of wonder.” ~ Ralph W. Sockman
“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's." - Mark Twain in Eruption
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23-04-2013, 06:06 AM
RE: Invasive Species
So let's move on to the "elephant in the room" of invasive species...humans.

Based on what we know (see map)

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/06...load.2.pdf

We started out about 200,000 years ago in central Africa and have quickly, in realtive terms, populated, or rather overpopulated, the Earth. While doing so we have displaced or driven to extinction inumerable species, especially megafauna.

Just like in the Lionfish example, we have disrupted ecosystems since the flora and fauna evolved in places like Australia, the Americas, Europe and Asia without pressures from homo sapiens.

I have heard it say that we are like a parasite on the Earth, slowly but surely destroying our host. Theists maintain all of this is here for us to exploit because God put it here for us and since this is only a way station on the way to a "better" place, unfortunately and not unexpectedly it is treated as such; a hotel room, if you will.

Meanwhile people like me see the planet as "the" only home we have and may ever have barring colonization of other planets or moons.

I'd like to know your thoughts. Where and how do we fit into the global ecosystem now that we have migrated and established ourselves in almost every corner of the planet? And maybe more importantly what should we do to assure our survival?

"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the shoreline of wonder.” ~ Ralph W. Sockman
“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's." - Mark Twain in Eruption
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23-04-2013, 06:10 AM (This post was last modified: 23-04-2013 06:16 AM by Vera.)
RE: Invasive Species
(22-04-2013 07:46 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Can't help it that you feel that way, I prefer to look at it as preserving our local fisheries.

"You guys" is quite the generalization. I can assure you I had nothing to do with it.
Laughat
[Image: sense+of+humour.jpg]


As for your question, I think both extremes are inherently flawed. We are not here to exploit as much as we can, nor are we the worst thing that has happened to the planet. And frankly, any species is after its own survival, so if, say, ants had the chance, they would do what we are doing. And yeah, being somewhat more self-aware than ants, we have more responsibility. And I think a lot of people are trying to do something about it.

So no, we're not the greatest plight this planet has ever seen. Saying this is as much an ego thing as saying we are here to do as we please and to exploit as much as we want.

And anyway, the planet will survive us and new life will appear where we once were. Life forms appear and disappear all the time. We are no different.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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23-04-2013, 06:16 AM
RE: Invasive Species
(23-04-2013 06:10 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(22-04-2013 07:46 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Can't help it that you feel that way, I prefer to look at it as preserving our local fisheries.

"You guys" is quite the generalization. I can assure you I had nothing to do with it.
Laughat
[Image: sense+of+humour.jpg]

Ditto. I'll go look for mine and you go look for yours and then we Hug

"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the shoreline of wonder.” ~ Ralph W. Sockman
“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's." - Mark Twain in Eruption
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23-04-2013, 06:17 AM
RE: Invasive Species
(23-04-2013 06:16 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Ditto. I'll go look for mine and you go look for yours and then we Hug
Yeah, but mine ain't missing! Dodgy

Well, not anymore Blush

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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23-04-2013, 06:24 AM
RE: Invasive Species
(23-04-2013 06:10 AM)Vera Wrote:  As for your question, I think both extremes are inherently flawed. We are not here to exploit as much as we can, nor are we the worst thing that has happened to the planet. And frankly, any species is after its own survival, so if, say, ants had the chance, they would do what we are doing. And yeah, being somewhat more self-aware than ants, we have more responsibility. And I think a lot of people are trying to do something about it.

So no, we're not the greatest plight this planet has ever seen. Saying this is as much an ego thing as saying we are here to do as we please and to exploit as much as we want.

And anyway, the planet will survive us and new life will appear where we once were. Life forms appear and disappear all the time. We are no different.

If you use the word "plight" to mean specie I'm curious to know what other life form has outdone us in exploiting the planet.

I have no doubt the planet will be here long after we're either gone or mostly gone, she is an indifferent mother.

Personally I think that unless we figure out how to scale back our own population we are going to outstrip our own ability to produce food and find enough fresh water to support the many billions of us.

"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the shoreline of wonder.” ~ Ralph W. Sockman
“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's." - Mark Twain in Eruption
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23-04-2013, 06:33 AM
RE: Invasive Species
(23-04-2013 06:24 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  If you use the word "plight" to mean specie I'm curious to know what other life form has outdone us in exploiting the planet.

Actually, I meant to write blight Rolleyes

Quote:Personally I think that unless we figure out how to scale back our own population we are going to outstrip our own ability to produce food and find enough fresh water to support the many billions of us.

Indeed (though I do think we are aware of this and are trying to do something about it, though at a snail's pace). But what will happen then? We will become extinct. Not life on Earth. Life on Earth will go on. Hey, those billions of corpses will probably help sustain a lot of other species.

Do I want this to happen? No. Not least of all because it would also involve a lot of suffering for humankind, but also because I like the life we have on the planet right now. And yet, we're just one cataclysm short of going extinct, together with most other life forms.

So yes, I do not think we are the worst thing that has happened to the planet or that will continue to happen to it. Are we the worst species? Not even sure about that.

All I'm saying is that both extremes - we are special, elect, the pinnacle of creation and we are the scum of the Earth, the lowest of the low and worse than cockroaches - are an ego thing that sets apart from the rest of life on the planet. And I don't think we're that special either way.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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23-04-2013, 07:15 AM
RE: Invasive Species
(23-04-2013 06:33 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(23-04-2013 06:24 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  If you use the word "plight" to mean specie I'm curious to know what other life form has outdone us in exploiting the planet.

Actually, I meant to write blight Rolleyes

Quote:Personally I think that unless we figure out how to scale back our own population we are going to outstrip our own ability to produce food and find enough fresh water to support the many billions of us.

Indeed (though I do think we are aware of this and are trying to do something about it, though at a snail's pace). But what will happen then? We will become extinct. Not life on Earth. Life on Earth will go on.

All I'm saying is that both extremes - we are special, elect, the pinnacle of creation and we are the scum of the Earth, the lowest of the low and worse than cockroaches - are an ego thing that sets apart from the rest of life on the planet. And I don't think we're that special either way.

I don't think we're scum = 0 or elect = 10, on a scale of 0-10, but I think we're closer to 0 than 10 in our ability to get along with the rest of the bilologics on the planet.

I believe we simply have come too far too fast with technology and have outpaced our societal abilities. As the late, great Isaac Asimov wrote:

The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom.

One of the greatest issues I have against the "great" religions is their blindness to the consequences of their teachings. The Catholic church is a prime example, always advocating against the use of contraceptives. The fundamentalists trying to save souls instead of using all those efforts into helping find ways to save actual lives.

And the greatest evil that stems from religions, especially here in the US, is their fight against the sciences. In my view the only way we, as a species, will survive will be because of our research in labs as opposed to our prayers in pews.

"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the shoreline of wonder.” ~ Ralph W. Sockman
“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's." - Mark Twain in Eruption
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23-04-2013, 07:19 AM
RE: Invasive Species
(23-04-2013 07:15 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom.
"Science has made us gods even before we are worthy of being men." - Jean Rostand.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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23-04-2013, 07:23 AM
RE: Invasive Species
(23-04-2013 07:19 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(23-04-2013 07:15 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom.
"Science has made us gods even before we are worthy of being men." - Jean Rostand.

OOOHHHH! Me likey.


"Scientific views end in awe and mystery, lost at the edge in uncertainty, but they appear to be so deep and so impressive that the theory that it is all arranged as a stage for God to watch man's struggle for good and evil seems inadequate." - Richard P. Feynman

"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the shoreline of wonder.” ~ Ralph W. Sockman
“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's." - Mark Twain in Eruption
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