Invitation to Debate and Discuss with Diddo97
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02-09-2014, 01:25 PM
RE: Invitation to Debate and Discuss with Diddo97
While you are cooking up a response to my last post, I have a few other things that have been piling up in other threads that I want to ask you about.

The following are quotes from you taken from the "Lost my faith in Atheism" thread. Here is the link if anyone would like a glance at the source. I did combine two separate posts into one quote here, but other than that I have made no adjustments to your words.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...in-Atheism

Quote:You have faith in science.

What do you mean by this? Are you trying to say that secular people have a trust in the scientific method based on continuously reliable and useful results? Are you trying to say that religious faith, or belief based in apprehensions rather than proofs, is necessary to support science?

Quote:To be an atheist, you would need to be absolutely perfect. You would need to be above God.

To me, this seems to be a non-sequitur. In what way is disbelief in deities the same thing as a requirement of perfection? While we are at it, what is perfection?

Quote: If you believed in absolute certainty, you would be a theist.

I am once again confused by what seems to me to be unnecessary use of the word "absolute". What is the difference between certainty and "absolute certainty"?

Quote: no one is an atheist. An atheist is someone who does not believe in God. Which means that there are no atheists, as everyone believes in God.

I hope you can understand why I am not going to take your word for it. The simple explanation is that I don't believe you. I don't know if a god exists, but I don't believe one does either. I would change my mind if I was presented with a good reason to believe, or a demonstration of a god's existence. I don't expect you to take my word for it either, and it doesn't really doesn't matter to me that you claim to have information to the contrary.

I think the possibility of being wrong, or not really knowing anything for sure, is universal to human beings. You are not an exception. The same constraints of a limited and possibly even flawed perspective, is all we have. I don't believe you when you say that everyone believes in god, because you can't possible know that, and I have examples as evidence to the contrary.

If you don't have or care to present evidence that everyone believes in god, evidence that can be demonstrated to support the claim, I can't accept the claim. That's just how skepticism works. If I accepted every claim, or even a majority of them, without demonstrable evidence, I would eventually hold a lot of contradictory and evidently false beliefs. Skepticism is the best way I know of to avoid most of that, but it isn't perfect.

Quote:You can't know anything to be true, and you're asking me for evidence?
Yes. Even though we might not even be able to "know" anything at all, we still want to get as close as we possibly can, which means we want evidence or other REASONS to believe something.

Quote:Knowing anything requires God.
This seems to be another complete non-sequitur. Can you explain further how knowledge and god are connected? Could you define god while you are at it? There are an awful lot of them.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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[+] 1 user Likes Dark Phoenix's post
03-09-2014, 12:11 AM
RE: Invitation to Debate and Discuss with Diddo97
(02-09-2014 01:25 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  While you are cooking up a response to my last post, I have a few other things that have been piling up in other threads that I want to ask you about.

The following are quotes from you taken from the "Lost my faith in Atheism" thread. Here is the link if anyone would like a glance at the source. I did combine two separate posts into one quote here, but other than that I have made no adjustments to your words.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...in-Atheism

Quote:You have faith in science.

What do you mean by this? Are you trying to say that secular people have a trust in the scientific method based on continuously reliable and useful results? Are you trying to say that religious faith, or belief based in apprehensions rather than proofs, is necessary to support science?

Quote:To be an atheist, you would need to be absolutely perfect. You would need to be above God.

To me, this seems to be a non-sequitur. In what way is disbelief in deities the same thing as a requirement of perfection? While we are at it, what is perfection?

Quote: If you believed in absolute certainty, you would be a theist.

I am once again confused by what seems to me to be unnecessary use of the word "absolute". What is the difference between certainty and "absolute certainty"?

Quote: no one is an atheist. An atheist is someone who does not believe in God. Which means that there are no atheists, as everyone believes in God.

I hope you can understand why I am not going to take your word for it. The simple explanation is that I don't believe you. I don't know if a god exists, but I don't believe one does either. I would change my mind if I was presented with a good reason to believe, or a demonstration of a god's existence. I don't expect you to take my word for it either, and it doesn't really doesn't matter to me that you claim to have information to the contrary.

I think the possibility of being wrong, or not really knowing anything for sure, is universal to human beings. You are not an exception. The same constraints of a limited and possibly even flawed perspective, is all we have. I don't believe you when you say that everyone believes in god, because you can't possible know that, and I have examples as evidence to the contrary.

If you don't have or care to present evidence that everyone believes in god, evidence that can be demonstrated to support the claim, I can't accept the claim. That's just how skepticism works. If I accepted every claim, or even a majority of them, without demonstrable evidence, I would eventually hold a lot of contradictory and evidently false beliefs. Skepticism is the best way I know of to avoid most of that, but it isn't perfect.

Quote:You can't know anything to be true, and you're asking me for evidence?
Yes. Even though we might not even be able to "know" anything at all, we still want to get as close as we possibly can, which means we want evidence or other REASONS to believe something.

Quote:Knowing anything requires God.
This seems to be another complete non-sequitur. Can you explain further how knowledge and god are connected? Could you define god while you are at it? There are an awful lot of them.

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03-09-2014, 02:05 PM
RE: Invitation to Debate and Discuss with Diddo97
Hey Diddo97,

I was hoping to have a real discussion, but it doesn't look like you want to.

You have been asking vague directionless questions, ignoring my questions, and spamming the thread with pictures.

The quotes I posted are common examples of what you write every day. Asking you for more than assertions alone, was important to me. Understanding how or why you are convinced that it is acceptable to assert without evidence, on the basis of presupposition, was important to me.

I now withdraw my invitation to debate or discuss. You have the last word. Better make it good.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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03-09-2014, 04:31 PM
RE: Invitation to Debate and Discuss with Diddo97
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But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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