Is AA a religion?
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02-11-2014, 03:58 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2014 04:02 PM by Mr Woof.)
Is AA a religion?
Having spent some 20 months as a member and researching this issue I'm not altogether sure.
AA does claim that alcoholism can be addressed by turning to a higher power, or god of our own understanding: a sort of Clayton's god perhaps.
But the literature really belies this: what with the King James version Hims, thy's, thous, etc, there comes across a distinct Judaeo/Christian flavour.
Actually AA's religious views are to be found in the Oxford Group, an evangelical/Puritan Christian sect operating round the time Bill Wilson had his epihany.
The fellowship, in its early days were helped by this group and held their meetings there.
Wilson, the major founder of AA, was an extreme alcoholic; often hospitalised, he appeared well on the way to insanity or an alcoholic death. It was on one of these trips to causuality, where, while recovering, he experience his so called white light phenomenon, a call as he saw it, to save the doomed alcoholic,
While being thought by some to be a visionary regarding alcohol, Bill was hardly a good role model. In the process of writing the Big Book he chained smoked (he died of empysema) womanized, turned to psychedelic drugs, and was in no way anonymous in his self projection and money making.
AA see alcoholics as ill people, with god the only sure method of recovery.Along with the other eleven steps, so called suggestions, but often more like dogma the recovering person turns to AA meetings for life..........
Confessions to a priest, lawyer, friend, psychiatrist could be quite un healthy in my opinion, along with the empowerment of sponsors (mentors) chosen to teach 'the right track". There is also a requirement to make amends for all bad behaviour to others, providing such caused no further harm. This is step 7 and I was really surprised to learn that my sponsor (28 years sober) had only got that far. He certainly seemed to have other problems.
While there are small atheist groups within AA who see their empowerment coming from the group, I seems to me that AA may be at least seen as a cult of sorts and probably a type of quasi religion as well.
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02-11-2014, 04:05 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
(02-11-2014 03:58 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Having spent some 20 months as a member and researching this issue I'm not altogether sure.
AA does claim that alcoholism can be addressed by turning to a higher power, or god of our own understanding: a sort of Clayton's god perhaps.
But the literature really belies this: what with the King James version Hims, thy's, thous, etc, there comes across a distinct Judaeo/Christian flavour.
Actually AA's religious views are to be found in the Oxford Group, an evangelical/Puritan Christian sect operating round the time Bill Wilson had his epihany.
The fellowship, in its early days were helped by this group and held their meetings there.
Wilson, the major founder of AA, was an extreme alcoholic; often hospitalised, he appeared well on the way to insanity or an alcoholic death. It was on one of these trips to causuality, where, while recovering, he experience his so called white light phenomenon, a call as he saw it, to save the doomed alcoholic,
While being thought by some to be a visionary regarding alcohol, Bill was hardly a good role model. In the process of writing the Big Book he chained smoked (he died of empysema) womanized, turned to psychedelic drugs, and was in no way anonymous in his self projection and money making.
AA see alcoholics as ill people, with god the only sure method of recovery.Along with the other eleven steps, so called suggestions, but often more like dogma the recovering person turns to AA meetings for life..........
Confessions to a priest, lawyer, friend, psychiatrist could be quite un healthy in my opinion, along with the empowerment of sponsors (mentors) chosen to teach 'the right track". There is also a requirement to make amends for all bad behaviour to others, providing such caused no further harm. This is step 7 and I was really surprised to learn that my sponsor (28 years sober) had only got that far. He certainly seemed to have other problems.
While there are small atheist groups within AA who see their empowerment coming from the group, I seems to me that AA may be at least seen as a cult of sorts and probably a type of quasi religion as well.

Yes it is a religion. It is an all encompassing replacement for whatever the former addiction was. It is also one of the least helpful ways to combat addiction.

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02-11-2014, 04:11 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
(02-11-2014 04:05 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 03:58 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Having spent some 20 months as a member and researching this issue I'm not altogether sure.
AA does claim that alcoholism can be addressed by turning to a higher power, or god of our own understanding: a sort of Clayton's god perhaps.
But the literature really belies this: what with the King James version Hims, thy's, thous, etc, there comes across a distinct Judaeo/Christian flavour.
Actually AA's religious views are to be found in the Oxford Group, an evangelical/Puritan Christian sect operating round the time Bill Wilson had his epihany.
The fellowship, in its early days were helped by this group and held their meetings there.
Wilson, the major founder of AA, was an extreme alcoholic; often hospitalised, he appeared well on the way to insanity or an alcoholic death. It was on one of these trips to causuality, where, while recovering, he experience his so called white light phenomenon, a call as he saw it, to save the doomed alcoholic,
While being thought by some to be a visionary regarding alcohol, Bill was hardly a good role model. In the process of writing the Big Book he chained smoked (he died of empysema) womanized, turned to psychedelic drugs, and was in no way anonymous in his self projection and money making.
AA see alcoholics as ill people, with god the only sure method of recovery.Along with the other eleven steps, so called suggestions, but often more like dogma the recovering person turns to AA meetings for life..........
Confessions to a priest, lawyer, friend, psychiatrist could be quite un healthy in my opinion, along with the empowerment of sponsors (mentors) chosen to teach 'the right track". There is also a requirement to make amends for all bad behaviour to others, providing such caused no further harm. This is step 7 and I was really surprised to learn that my sponsor (28 years sober) had only got that far. He certainly seemed to have other problems.
While there are small atheist groups within AA who see their empowerment coming from the group, I seems to me that AA may be at least seen as a cult of sorts and probably a type of quasi religion as well.

Yes it is a religion. It is an all encompassing replacement for whatever the former addiction was. It is also one of the least helpful ways to combat addiction.

No, it's not. Some AA groups are quite cult-like and others are quite rational. There is no one AA.

And declaring it to be one of the least helpful, we would have to know its success rate.

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02-11-2014, 04:21 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
(02-11-2014 04:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 04:05 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Yes it is a religion. It is an all encompassing replacement for whatever the former addiction was. It is also one of the least helpful ways to combat addiction.

No, it's not. Some AA groups are quite cult-like and others are quite rational. There is no one AA.

And declaring it to be one of the least helpful, we would have to know its success rate.

Between 5% and 10%. It's harder to get more accurate numbers because AA goes out of their way to hide actual numbers. Their official stance is that the program can't fail you, you can only fail the program and when you fail then don't count you in their numbers. It's dishonest as fuck.

Also the balls on you Woof calling me a drunk moron multiple times because I have the word Whiskey in my forum name lol

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02-11-2014, 04:24 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
(02-11-2014 04:21 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 04:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, it's not. Some AA groups are quite cult-like and others are quite rational. There is no one AA.

And declaring it to be one of the least helpful, we would have to know its success rate.

Between 5% and 10%.

Also the balls on you Woof calling me a drunk moron multiple times because I have the word Whiskey in my forum name lol

The link doesn't go where you think it goes.Consider

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02-11-2014, 04:24 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
(02-11-2014 04:21 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 04:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, it's not. Some AA groups are quite cult-like and others are quite rational. There is no one AA.

And declaring it to be one of the least helpful, we would have to know its success rate.

Between 5% and 10%.

Also the balls on you Woof calling me a drunk moron multiple times because I have the word Whiskey in my forum name lol

Please cite that accusation................in multiples.Laugh out load
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02-11-2014, 04:25 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2014 04:29 PM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: Is AA a religion?
(02-11-2014 04:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 04:21 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Between 5% and 10%.

Also the balls on you Woof calling me a drunk moron multiple times because I have the word Whiskey in my forum name lol

The link doesn't go where you think it goes.Consider

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/06/health....html?_r=0

Damn useless Sloan website, forcing me to use the NYTimes Tongue

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02-11-2014, 04:26 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
My god! I need a drink right now!

Drinking Beverage

That's better.

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02-11-2014, 04:29 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
It would be interesting to compare the more theistically slanted AA groups to the non-theistic AA groups and see what the recovery rate is for each or if it's the same.

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Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
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02-11-2014, 04:33 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
(02-11-2014 04:29 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  It would be interesting to compare the more theistically slanted AA groups to the non-theistic AA groups and see what the recovery rate is for each or if it's the same.

Over all the AA stats aren't very good at all, accept for those who seem to become sort of addicted to the program.
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