Is AA a religion?
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02-11-2014, 04:35 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2014 04:38 PM by Mr Woof.)
RE: Is AA a religion?
(02-11-2014 04:26 PM)DLJ Wrote:  My god! I need a drink right now!

Drinking Beverage

That's better.

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02-11-2014, 04:36 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
(02-11-2014 04:25 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 04:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  The link doesn't go where you think it goes.Consider

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/06/health....html?_r=0

Damn useless Sloan website, forcing me to use the NYTimes Tongue

I don't see that that supports your numbers.

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02-11-2014, 04:47 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
(02-11-2014 04:24 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 04:21 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Between 5% and 10%.

Also the balls on you Woof calling me a drunk moron multiple times because I have the word Whiskey in my forum name lol

Please cite that accusation................in multiples.Laugh out load
Describing me:
(02-10-2014 03:57 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  A.I.R.mate.............alkie in recovery!Drinking Beverage
From your negative rep of me:
Quote:Rather tel lies than be a drunken moron! Fact is a few people like me here, who can buy and sell some of you. Have a nice day!

Few others I don't have the time to dig through atm and find. It's kinda the only response you ever have to me actually, even when you down reped Zeke just for up repping me you implied it. /shrug
I don't actually mind though, doing it even ONCE is hypocritical as hell, but I kinda figured you were projecting before and now I'm chuckling at how correct that hypothesis was haha.

Anyway is this really the point of the thread?

AA can work for some people and some people it just can't. The bigger problem I have on it is how inappropriately it's tied to the courts.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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02-11-2014, 04:58 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
(02-11-2014 04:36 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 04:25 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/06/health....html?_r=0

Damn useless Sloan website, forcing me to use the NYTimes Tongue

I don't see that that supports your numbers.

Good damn, that's what I get for skimming it. The article I was trying to link from Sloan had it Tongue For shame Whiskey, for shame.

http://www.npr.org/2014/03/23/291405829/...p-recovery
and from Wikipedia (oh joy)
Quote:Lance Dodes, former director of substance abuse treatment at Harvard’s McLean Hospital and assistant clinical professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, says Alcoholics Anonymous helps between 5 percent and 10 percent of its participants. Dodes also believes A.A. harms 90 percent of participants because of the perception that "If you fail in A.A., it's you that's failed" and not A.A.

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02-11-2014, 06:06 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
You need only read the twelve steps to see how detrimental AA can be to the majority of people who go through it. AA aims to completely remove a persons power to achieve on their own. It's a terrible thing to teach anyone, especially someone who is struggling with something like addiction. The most successful AA groups are probably the ones that deviate the most from the actual teachings, but it's all guesswork. Even the "estimated 5-10%". That's because AA is excellent at burying and skewing statistics.

I know there's people it's worked for, but that doesn't make it a good method. Only one that's had a very limited amount of success. If that success is coincidentally with you or someone you know....awesome. I'm glad you/they were successful. But don't suggest others follow that path just because it worked for you. It doesn't change the fact that it doesn't work for most, even with the most generous padding of numbers.

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02-11-2014, 06:12 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
(02-11-2014 04:33 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 04:29 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  It would be interesting to compare the more theistically slanted AA groups to the non-theistic AA groups and see what the recovery rate is for each or if it's the same.

Over all the AA stats aren't very good at all, accept for those who seem to become sort of addicted to the program.


Lol. Well, if the stats aren't very good how the hell does anyone know if AA actually works? Is this another group who use anecdotal evidence for evidence which really isn't evidence?

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02-11-2014, 06:26 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
(02-11-2014 04:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 04:05 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Yes it is a religion. It is an all encompassing replacement for whatever the former addiction was. It is also one of the least helpful ways to combat addiction.

No, it's not. Some AA groups are quite cult-like and others are quite rational. There is no one AA.

And declaring it to be one of the least helpful, we would have to know its success rate.

This yes. Some are extremely secular, others are incredibly cult like.

As with most things....you take what you need and leave the rest.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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02-11-2014, 06:26 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
I know people who have gotten and stayed sober with AA for 10, 20, 30 or more years.
I also know folks who washed out in under a week.
As Chas mentioned, different groups within AA can operate in very different ways.
Some can be very religious, some not at all. The difference can be as simple as a short ride across town to another meeting.
I don't know the actual numbers, but I know for a FACT it does help many.
It's just like anything else, if it works for you, stick with it.
If it doesn't, find something that does.
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02-11-2014, 06:34 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
I just want to know if I join a group for my coffee addiction, will they server beer at the meetings? Drinking Beverage

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02-11-2014, 06:38 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
My best friend's father did the AA thing after many trips in and out of the state hospital (a system that really doesn't exist any more). He got sober around the time we graduated from HS and then he went on to train to be a counselor. As did my friend's mom - she worked with spouses and children.

What I noticed was that the coffee pot was always brewing at their house and a steady stream of people were in and out to talk, to avoid the bar, or to simply have a destination. It seemed that worked, not only to keep Pa sober in case someone showed up, but also appeared to be a great networking system of support.

I suppose different groups do it differently. That group was more about the human connection.

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