Is AA a religion?
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25-03-2015, 03:58 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
(25-03-2015 08:27 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(24-03-2015 07:20 PM)Nieko Sx Wrote:  Very good article, thanks. The comments section is pretty musical too, steppers up in arms having their perfect programme dissed, pants!
It's great that word is getting out that the anon groups do not deserve the monopoly on chemical dependency and recovery from it that they currently hold and that aa is certainly not the only way to recovery.

AA was pretty much the only game in town for many years. It never claimed to be the only way, just a way that could work.

Quote:It's unbelievable that we're well into the 21st century yet desperate people are being fobbed off with 1930s gibberish, akin to being bled using leeches, being told they have no power and need god to sort them out. Apparently this same god couldn't give a monkey's about alcoholics 'til the 1930s but once subscribed to the programme this rock/lightbulb/doorknob god now requires a daily grovelling to remove sins and stop the sinner acquiring/preparing and ingesting (taking time and planning ergo not powerless but choice, albeit not always any easy one) their desired drink or drug.

It's criminal the amount of money people (or the insurance companies) pay to be sold aa's dubious snake oil in rehabs where they spend their days tossing about with horse's legs.

That this religious cure masquerades as mainstream drug treatment paid for by medical insurance and vetoed by the courts is utterly astounding.

AA works for some people, and the precepts have some psychological value. Breaking through the denial that most addicts exhibit is necessary, and 12-Step programs have some success in doing so.

It's not all black and white.
link re success rates would be nice~~~~~~~~~~~~~`Bowing
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25-03-2015, 04:26 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
(25-03-2015 03:58 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(25-03-2015 08:27 AM)Chas Wrote:  AA was pretty much the only game in town for many years. It never claimed to be the only way, just a way that could work.


AA works for some people, and the precepts have some psychological value. Breaking through the denial that most addicts exhibit is necessary, and 12-Step programs have some success in doing so.

It's not all black and white.
link re success rates would be nice~~~~~~~~~~~~~`Bowing

There are no accurate/definative success stats for AA.
They vary widely depending on where you get them.
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25-03-2015, 04:38 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
(25-03-2015 03:58 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(25-03-2015 08:27 AM)Chas Wrote:  AA was pretty much the only game in town for many years. It never claimed to be the only way, just a way that could work.


AA works for some people, and the precepts have some psychological value. Breaking through the denial that most addicts exhibit is necessary, and 12-Step programs have some success in doing so.

It's not all black and white.
link re success rates would be nice~~~~~~~~~~~~~`Bowing

I have also asked for that. Try to keep up.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-03-2015, 05:02 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
(25-03-2015 04:38 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-03-2015 03:58 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  link re success rates would be nice~~~~~~~~~~~~~`Bowing

I have also asked for that. Try to keep up.

I would elaborate in a new post relevant to the continuity of posts aspect, but I am banned from starting new posts.. Sorry!Yes
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25-03-2015, 05:04 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
(25-03-2015 05:02 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(25-03-2015 04:38 PM)Chas Wrote:  I have also asked for that. Try to keep up.

I would elaborate in a new post relevant to the continuity of posts aspect, but I am banned from starting new posts.. Sorry!Yes

Your point has been made...and made, and made. The forum is mean to you. Blah, blah, blah. There are other forums.

Yeah, you are sorry. And ramping up to full on pathetic.

Give it a rest.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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25-03-2015, 05:09 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
There is no really reliable data for AA, for perhaps obvious reasons (can you say, "anonymous"?)

But the best estimates derived from peer-reviewed research seem to be in the neighborhood of 5-8%.

I could perhaps buy this number, based on anecdotal experience. You have to realize that the vast majority of people who come "into the rooms" don't stay long. But AA doesn't count those people because they are not "really" working the program (can you say, "No true Scotsman"?)

Here's the thing. I found NA very useful and 12 steps are obviously helpful to many people. But the fanaticism, supernaturalism and churchiness eventually weighed on me. I am a success story ... but not to hear those still in the program, many of whom love to gossip about my "using."

Yawn.

I don't get the 12 step haters but no more do I get the fanatics who freak out at the mere suggestion that, you know, maybe it doesn't work for everyone.

God does not work in mysterious ways — he works in ways that are indistinguishable from his non-existence.
Jesus had a pretty rough weekend for your sins.
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25-03-2015, 05:11 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
(25-03-2015 05:04 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(25-03-2015 05:02 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I would elaborate in a new post relevant to the continuity of posts aspect, but I am banned from starting new posts.. Sorry!Yes

Your point has been made...and made, and made. The forum is mean to you. Blah, blah, blah. There are other forums.

Yeah, you are sorry. And ramping up to full on pathetic.

Give it a rest.

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25-03-2015, 05:24 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
(25-03-2015 05:09 PM)claywise Wrote:  There is no really reliable data for AA, for perhaps obvious reasons (can you say, "anonymous"?)

But the best estimates derived from peer-reviewed research seem to be in the neighborhood of 5-8%.

I could perhaps buy this number, based on anecdotal experience. You have to realize that the vast majority of people who come "into the rooms" don't stay long. But AA doesn't count those people because they are not "really" working the program (can you say, "No true Scotsman"?)

Here's the thing. I found NA very useful and 12 steps are obviously helpful to many people. But the fanaticism, supernaturalism and churchiness eventually weighed on me. I am a success story ... but not to hear those still in the program, many of whom love to gossip about my "using."

Yawn.

I don't get the 12 step haters but no more do I get the fanatics who freak out at the mere suggestion that, you know, maybe it doesn't work for everyone.

I too found both AA and NA. helpful to some degree.
What put me off was what seemed to be an inherent dogma over the 12 steps system; also some of the many cliches can be off putting, if not dangerous.
Some of the psychology is quite good if taken in isolation, but AA tends to demand a total adherence to all of the steps not to mention the traditions.
Here in Melbourne I have never heard of the courts sending people,in lieu of a jai sentence, to meetings. Tried to check it out on line, but couldn't find anything.
I would see such as something of a cop-out and probably not too helpful.
Currently I am not drinking at all, based on health issues and the serious social ramifications of unwise drugged up drinking
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25-03-2015, 06:06 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
(25-03-2015 05:02 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(25-03-2015 04:38 PM)Chas Wrote:  I have also asked for that. Try to keep up.

I would elaborate in a new post relevant to the continuity of posts aspect, but I am banned from starting new posts.. Sorry!Yes

Goddamn I hope that is permanent.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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25-03-2015, 06:11 PM
RE: Is AA a religion?
(25-03-2015 06:06 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(25-03-2015 05:02 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I would elaborate in a new post relevant to the continuity of posts aspect, but I am banned from starting new posts.. Sorry!Yes

Goddamn I hope that is permanent.

When you move higher up the ladder, you too will be able to ban people permanently or partially.........somethig to look forward to.Thumbsup
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