Is Atheism a Choice?
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08-08-2014, 09:22 PM
Is Atheism a Choice?
Sometimes it seems that whether you believe or not is similar to whether you are attracted to men or women. Did I one day decide to be heterosexual? No. Could I choose to be homosexual? no

I almost drowned last summer when I got caught in the counter rapids of a flood dam and couldn't swim away. Were I not to get the inspiration to go under the water and kick off the rocks I'd be dead. When I got to land I was partially blind, sick, and staggering with a splitting headache that lasted the rest of the day. Oxygen deprivation and exhaustion had reached a critical point.

I Knew beforehand that panicking is largely what is responsible for people drowning. There was no way to not panic. Well, I couldn't choose to be calm and believe everything would be okay. Once I believed that I would die there was no ability to believe otherwise.

So, there may be some people that really cannot choose to believe that there is no God. I can keep telling myself that , but the certainty that it is the truth is impossible to achieve.

You can make choices that increase the likelihood of you being strong with faith or strong in disbelief. I chose to stop going to mass, stop going to Eucharistic adoration, stop going to confession, stop praying the daily Rosary, stop reading the lives of the saints, and the decision of blasphem ing and mocking this so-called god of Scripture.

You can choose to feed the brain with things that will either increase the likelihood of strong faith, or increase the likelihood of disbelief, but some of us cannot choose one or the other.

You can do things that increase the likelihood of being an Olympic runner by running 40 miles a week , but it is a select few that will ever be equipped to be an Olympic marathon runner regardless of how much they run a day or a week, and in the end it isnt choice that causes someone to be more gifted.

And as Scripture says, Faith is a gift!

Atheism is also a gift Big Grin
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08-08-2014, 09:32 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
My atheism is not a choice.

My atheism is an obligate condition of my knowledge of all the relevant facts. I could not be a believer even if I wanted to. I could profess belief in a religion, but given what I currently know, I could never actually believe.

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08-08-2014, 09:44 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
(08-08-2014 09:22 PM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  Sometimes it seems that whether you believe or not is similar to whether you are attracted to men or women. Did I one day decide to be heterosexual? No. Could I choose to be homosexual? no

I almost drowned last summer when I got caught in the counter rapids of a flood dam and couldn't swim away. Were I not to get the inspiration to go under the water and kick off the rocks I'd be dead. When I got to land I was partially blind, sick, and staggering with a splitting headache that lasted the rest of the day. Oxygen deprivation and exhaustion had reached a critical point.

I Knew beforehand that panicking is largely what is responsible for people drowning. There was no way to not panic. Well, I couldn't choose to be calm and believe everything would be okay. Once I believed that I would die there was no ability to believe otherwise.

So, there may be some people that really cannot choose to believe that there is no God. I can keep telling myself that , but the certainty that it is the truth is impossible to achieve.

You can make choices that increase the likelihood of you being strong with faith or strong in disbelief. I chose to stop going to mass, stop going to Eucharistic adoration, stop going to confession, stop praying the daily Rosary, stop reading the lives of the saints, and the decision of blasphem ing and mocking this so-called god of Scripture.

You can choose to feed the brain with things that will either increase the likelihood of strong faith, or increase the likelihood of disbelief, but some of us cannot choose one or the other.

You can do things that increase the likelihood of being an Olympic runner by running 40 miles a week , but it is a select few that will ever be equipped to be an Olympic marathon runner regardless of how much they run a day or a week, and in the end it isnt choice that causes someone to be more gifted.

And as Scripture says, Faith is a gift!

Atheism is also a gift Big Grin


Belief, or lack of belief, is always a choice. The question is, what role does indoctrination play in the person's choice? People choose not to believe things that have mountains of support for them all the time. Some people were brought up in religious homes, and have said that even though they were brought up in that environment, they never believed in it.

So, like I said, when it comes to religion, the main question is "What part does indoctrination play in the equation?" Indoctrination definitely does play a huge role in why people believe, and if they hold onto those beliefs their whole lives. The problem is, there is no one-size-fits-all for this situation. Some people were brought up in highly religious families and ended up becoming atheist down the road. Some were brought up in families that were not very religious, but still held onto those religious beliefs. I have heard several personal stories from people saying that they were brought up in religious families, but never believed, even when they were children, because it didn't make sense to them. It's all over the board.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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08-08-2014, 09:51 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
(08-08-2014 09:44 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  
(08-08-2014 09:22 PM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  Sometimes it seems that whether you believe or not is similar to whether you are attracted to men or women. Did I one day decide to be heterosexual? No. Could I choose to be homosexual? no

I almost drowned last summer when I got caught in the counter rapids of a flood dam and couldn't swim away. Were I not to get the inspiration to go under the water and kick off the rocks I'd be dead. When I got to land I was partially blind, sick, and staggering with a splitting headache that lasted the rest of the day. Oxygen deprivation and exhaustion had reached a critical point.

I Knew beforehand that panicking is largely what is responsible for people drowning. There was no way to not panic. Well, I couldn't choose to be calm and believe everything would be okay. Once I believed that I would die there was no ability to believe otherwise.

So, there may be some people that really cannot choose to believe that there is no God. I can keep telling myself that , but the certainty that it is the truth is impossible to achieve.

You can make choices that increase the likelihood of you being strong with faith or strong in disbelief. I chose to stop going to mass, stop going to Eucharistic adoration, stop going to confession, stop praying the daily Rosary, stop reading the lives of the saints, and the decision of blasphem ing and mocking this so-called god of Scripture.

You can choose to feed the brain with things that will either increase the likelihood of strong faith, or increase the likelihood of disbelief, but some of us cannot choose one or the other.

You can do things that increase the likelihood of being an Olympic runner by running 40 miles a week , but it is a select few that will ever be equipped to be an Olympic marathon runner regardless of how much they run a day or a week, and in the end it isnt choice that causes someone to be more gifted.

And as Scripture says, Faith is a gift!

Atheism is also a gift Big Grin


Belief, or lack of belief, is always a choice. The question is, what role does indoctrination play in the person's choice? People choose not to believe things that have mountains of support for them all the time. Some people were brought up in religious homes, and have said that even though they were brought up in that environment, they never believed in it.

So, like I said, when it comes to religion, the main question is "What part does indoctrination play in the equation?" Indoctrination definitely does play a huge role in why people believe, and if they hold onto those beliefs their whole lives. The problem is, there is no one-size-fits-all for this situation. Some people were brought up in highly religious families and ended up becoming atheist down the road. Some were brought up in families that were not very religious, but still held onto those religious beliefs. I have heard several personal stories from people saying that they were brought up in religious families, but never believed, even when they were children, because it didn't make sense to them. It's all over the board.

Some people will not believe regardless of how much shit they're fed. Indoctrination only fueled my hatred for Religion as a child.
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08-08-2014, 09:56 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
(08-08-2014 09:44 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  ...
Belief, or lack of belief, is always a choice.
...

I don't agree.

Here is a well-written (and brief) article on the subject and I too (like the author) am in the involuntarism camp.

I do think, however, that one can choose their faith.

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08-08-2014, 10:00 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
(08-08-2014 09:51 PM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  Some people will not believe regardless of how much shit they're fed. Indoctrination only fueled my hatred for Religion as a child.

That was my point. There is nothing you can say that will be 100% accurate in every case. However, to say that indoctrination does not play a significant role would be foolish.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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08-08-2014, 10:21 PM (This post was last modified: 08-08-2014 10:40 PM by WindyCityJazz.)
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
(08-08-2014 09:56 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(08-08-2014 09:44 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  ...
Belief, or lack of belief, is always a choice.
...

I don't agree.

Here is a well-written (and brief) article on the subject and I too (like the author) am in the involuntarism camp.

I do think, however, that one can choose their faith.

I agree with a lot of the points made, but then how do you differentiate between belief and faith in things that have evidence, but are not physical objects that one can not simply just ignore, like whether or not a computer is on their desk.

So, what would belief in whether or not global warming, and the actions of humans playing a part in it, is true fall under: belief or faith? We have tons of scientific evidence for it, yet there are a lot of people who think that it is either bullshit, or that it is a natural cycle, and that the role of humans polluting the environment has played no role in it. Unlike a computer, global warming is not a physical object that one can see with their own eyes.

I'm not, in any way, trying to say that atheism is faith. It's obviously nothing more than a lack of faith. It's the way people think of choice that makes it a slippery slope.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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08-08-2014, 10:22 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
I wasn't subjected to indoctrination as a child so I can't relate to how deep the brainwashing goes.
I identified as Christian (minimally) simply because it was the same as most everyone around me. I would have gone with any other religion that my friends were at the time, I didn't care one way or another.

For me it was a choice, but only after I took a close look at what religion really was.
I suppose there as many answers to this question as there are people. Circumstances, (individual situations) I think, are a big factor.

Probably if you asked a fundy this question they would give the same answer as they would about homosexuality. That of course it is a choice, and a reversible one at that.
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08-08-2014, 10:26 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
Belief is not a choice. Belief does not work like that. I CANNOT CHOOSE to believe in something, just because I want to, or someone says it is a good idea. I CANNOT CHOOSE to suddenly believe that Santa is real and presents are going to magically appear under my tree this year. It does not work like that. Belief does not work like that and only a delusional, retarded FOOL would think or even try to attempt to argue otherwise. If you are thinking of arguing this I will ignore you.

So, what makes anypony think that a lack of belief is any different? Are you CHOOSING to not believe in the tooth fairy?

Basically, this is the same exact argument that Atheism is based on faith. Which it is not, you are just wording it differently "hence" the hostility from this post right now.


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08-08-2014, 10:26 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
Fundies would most definitely consider it a choice. Otherwise how do you justify eternal torture in Hell for being an unbeliever?

However, fundies will often tell you that faith is a gift from God. So if it is a gift, how is it a choice?
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