Is Atheism a Choice?
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08-08-2014, 10:40 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
(08-08-2014 10:00 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  
(08-08-2014 09:51 PM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  Some people will not believe regardless of how much shit they're fed. Indoctrination only fueled my hatred for Religion as a child.

That was my point. There is nothing you can say that will be 100% accurate in every case. However, to say that indoctrination does not play a significant role would be foolish.

I don't think you choose to be indoctrinated. I think the question is, in the absence of threats are some kind of conditioning can you choose to believe. I think the answer to that is obviously no.
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08-08-2014, 10:41 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
(08-08-2014 10:26 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  Belief is not a choice. Belief does not work like that. I CANNOT CHOOSE to believe in something, just because I want to, or someone says it is a good idea. I CANNOT CHOOSE to suddenly believe that Santa is real and presents are going to magically appear under my tree this year. It does not work like that. Belief does not work like that and only a delusional, retarded FOOL would think or even try to attempt to argue otherwise. If you are thinking of arguing this I will ignore you.

So, what makes anypony think that a lack of belief is any different? Are you CHOOSING to not believe in the tooth fairy?

Basically, this is the same exact argument that Atheism is based on faith. Which it is not, you are just wording it differently "hence" the hostility from this post right now.

I'm not sure who this is directed at but since it came just after me...
I never cared enough one way or the other about religion until I took a closer look at it. At that point I had to choose what I believed. I picked atheism.
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08-08-2014, 10:44 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
(08-08-2014 10:40 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  
(08-08-2014 10:00 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  That was my point. There is nothing you can say that will be 100% accurate in every case. However, to say that indoctrination does not play a significant role would be foolish.

I don't think you choose to be indoctrinated. I think the question is, in the absence of threats are some kind of conditioning can you choose to believe. I think the answer to that is obviously no.

Of course you don't choose to be indoctrinated. I never said that. I said that indoctrination plays a big role on whether a person chooses, and will continue to choose, to believe in their religion. I don't know how you got the idea that I was saying that indoctrination itself is a choice.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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08-08-2014, 10:45 PM (This post was last modified: 08-08-2014 10:51 PM by WindyCityJazz.)
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
(08-08-2014 10:41 PM)pablo628 Wrote:  I'm not sure who this is directed at but since it came just after me...
I never cared enough one way or the other about religion until I took a closer look at it. At that point I had to choose what I believed. I picked atheism.

Thanks Pablo. That's exactly what I'm trying to say. Smile Arguments over words and their interpretations tend to turn things into a giant clusterfuck.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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09-08-2014, 01:27 AM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
By choose....do you mean choose to attach a label to that which you already believe?

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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09-08-2014, 01:38 AM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
You choose to except the reality that there is no evidence for god or you choose not to except the reality. That's the choice. That Atheism is the label that best describes the correct choice is incidental.
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09-08-2014, 05:37 AM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
Growing up I had very little choice about what I was feed, but I absolutely would not eat spinach. I literally couldn't stomach it. We didn't grow up going to church or even saying grace but once a year at Thanksgiving with the whole family and I couldn't stomach that either.

Now a days I don't mind spinach and grace doesn't bug me. If I say it, there is no mention of a god but only thanks to the farmers who grew the crops and thanks to the person who prepared the meal.

I make a choice about what I allow in my mind and in my body. I consider a claim and then make a rational choice about the claim. Atheism just happens to be a label we put on one of those choices concerning things that have no evidence, like all imaginary creatures from story books.

I don't choose Atheism. It just happens to reflect my ability to make a rational choice.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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09-08-2014, 06:12 AM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
I think you can make the choice to declare yourself an atheist, however; the thinking process that gets you to that point isn't necessarily a choice. For example:

When I was a believer, people would give their testimonies in church about how god answered their prayers for this and that. Most would believe and say "Amen!", I would take apart their testimony and analyze and look for explanations how everything they testified about could have occurred naturally or was the result of bias in their interpretation of events. I slowly realized that they were all delusional and that god never really answered prayer.

This critical thinking process, I believe, was something that was rare; especially in church congregations. It is something different about how you process information that isn't a choice, your brain is always going to hear something and say "Oh really?".

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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09-08-2014, 07:25 AM
Lightbulb RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
(08-08-2014 10:26 PM)Wicked Clown Wrote:  Fundies would most definitely consider it a choice. Otherwise how do you justify eternal torture in Hell for being an unbeliever?

However, fundies will often tell you that faith is a gift from God. So if it is a gift, how is it a choice?

Consider
When fundamentalists say that faith is both a choice and a gift, they probably mean that the desire to develop faith is a choice, while additional faith would be gifts that God gives persons as results of their faith/their desire to develop faith.
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09-08-2014, 07:55 AM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
(08-08-2014 10:21 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  ...
I agree with a lot of the points made, but then how do you differentiate between belief and faith in things that have evidence,
...

Well, I was using 'faith' as a noun.

Adriamime said it better...

(09-08-2014 01:27 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  By choose....do you mean choose to attach a label to that which you already believe?

And, OK, I get what you say about definitions being a "giant clusterfuck" but definitions are about creating clarity (or should be) so I would define 'faith' as belief without evidence.

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