Is Atheism a Choice?
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09-08-2014, 03:41 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
(08-08-2014 10:41 PM)pablo Wrote:  
(08-08-2014 10:26 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  Belief is not a choice. Belief does not work like that. I CANNOT CHOOSE to believe in something, just because I want to, or someone says it is a good idea. I CANNOT CHOOSE to suddenly believe that Santa is real and presents are going to magically appear under my tree this year. It does not work like that. Belief does not work like that and only a delusional, retarded FOOL would think or even try to attempt to argue otherwise. If you are thinking of arguing this I will ignore you.

So, what makes anypony think that a lack of belief is any different? Are you CHOOSING to not believe in the tooth fairy?

Basically, this is the same exact argument that Atheism is based on faith. Which it is not, you are just wording it differently "hence" the hostility from this post right now.

I'm not sure who this is directed at but since it came just after me...
I never cared enough one way or the other about religion until I took a closer look at it. At that point I had to choose what I believed. I picked atheism.
Atheism, logic, science, and maths are concerned with how things work in a finite secular world. The 'choice' here relates to various degrees of probability relevant to what is believed.
In any meaningful cosmic scenario faith is paramount.....but in what?
It's higgledy piggledly to the extreme out there.......
A faith to an ineffable"out there force goodness", while adhering to secular values, may be helpful to some degree, despite the lack of any real proof. I allude to a hope, not understood, but perhaps viable in some strange way.
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09-08-2014, 03:43 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
(08-08-2014 10:41 PM)pablo Wrote:  
(08-08-2014 10:26 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  Belief is not a choice. Belief does not work like that. I CANNOT CHOOSE to believe in something, just because I want to, or someone says it is a good idea. I CANNOT CHOOSE to suddenly believe that Santa is real and presents are going to magically appear under my tree this year. It does not work like that. Belief does not work like that and only a delusional, retarded FOOL would think or even try to attempt to argue otherwise. If you are thinking of arguing this I will ignore you.

So, what makes anypony think that a lack of belief is any different? Are you CHOOSING to not believe in the tooth fairy?

Basically, this is the same exact argument that Atheism is based on faith. Which it is not, you are just wording it differently "hence" the hostility from this post right now.

I'm not sure who this is directed at but since it came just after me...
I never cared enough one way or the other about religion until I took a closer look at it. At that point I had to choose what I believed. I picked atheism.
Atheism, logic, science, and maths are concerned with how things work in a finite secular world. The 'choice' here relates to various degrees of probability relevant to what is believed.
In any meaningful cosmic scenario faith is paramount.....but in what?
It's higgledy piggledly to the extreme out there.......
A faith to an ineffable"out there force goodness", while adhering to secular values, may be helpful to some degree, despite the lack of any real proof. I allude to a hope, not understood, but perhaps viable in some strange way.


SORRY~~~KINDLY DELETE DUPLICATE.
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09-08-2014, 04:05 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
(09-08-2014 01:26 PM)pablo Wrote:  Are we talking about making a choice, or what the definition of the word "choice" is?

If I have no choice then is it predetermined by some outside force that I will be atheist?
Is it just a feeling in my soul that atheism is right for me?
If I believe decisions like this are already within me, or made for me by an outside force, then I am not an atheist.
The word choice is then meaningless.
I'm talking about the normal everyday usage of the word "choice". Whether there is a true choice about anything is a whole other philosophical discussion. Whether you believe in a god is not predetermined because it's quite dependent on information available to you, whether you access that information, and how you interpret and understand that information. You have choices regarding how much you access the information available to you and whether you recognize it's worth or dismiss it in favor of a previously-held belief. But the resulting belief or lack of one is something that just happens within that context. If that's difficult to understand, then please choose to believe in Santa Claus right now just temporarily to prove your viewpoint on the matter. Let me know when you honestly, genuinely believe in Santa Claus.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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09-08-2014, 05:01 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
I don't choose to disbelieve in Goblins, Werewolves, Dracula, Magnum PI etc.

Why would god be any different?
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09-08-2014, 05:39 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
(09-08-2014 05:01 PM)TheStraightener Wrote:  I don't choose to disbelieve in Goblins, Werewolves, Dracula, Magnum PI etc.

Why would god be any different?

Would you immediately disbelieve in goblins, werewolves, dracula, magnum pi etc. if you had never heard of them before and didn't know what they were?
Or, would you find out what they are first then decide whether you believed in them?

We still seem to be having a discussion about what the word choice means.

How does a person who has been fully indoctrinated into a religion suddenly become atheist without making a choice somewhere in the process of de-conversion?
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09-08-2014, 05:59 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
(09-08-2014 05:39 PM)pablo Wrote:  
(09-08-2014 05:01 PM)TheStraightener Wrote:  I don't choose to disbelieve in Goblins, Werewolves, Dracula, Magnum PI etc.

Why would god be any different?

Would you immediately disbelieve in goblins, werewolves, dracula, magnum pi etc. if you had never heard of them before and didn't know what they were?
Or, would you find out what they are first then decide whether you believed in them?

We still seem to be having a discussion about what the word choice means.

How does a person who has been fully indoctrinated into a religion suddenly become atheist without making a choice somewhere in the process of de-conversion?

After learning enough to conclude that god is completely improbable, there is a point of realization, not really a choice, IMO.
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09-08-2014, 06:00 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
Not a choice here. I legitimately don't believe in a god or gods. I find it improbable and highly unlikely. There's absolutely no way I could see religion the same way in the same light ever again. Pascal's Wager is tossed out the window for me and there's nothing for me to hold onto with substance.

I'm perfectly OK with reality.

Official ordained minister of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Please pm me with prayer requests to his noodly goodness. Remember, he boiled for your sins and loves you. Carbo Diem! RAmen.
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09-08-2014, 06:20 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
(09-08-2014 05:59 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  
(09-08-2014 05:39 PM)pablo Wrote:  Would you immediately disbelieve in goblins, werewolves, dracula, magnum pi etc. if you had never heard of them before and didn't know what they were?
Or, would you find out what they are first then decide whether you believed in them?

We still seem to be having a discussion about what the word choice means.

How does a person who has been fully indoctrinated into a religion suddenly become atheist without making a choice somewhere in the process of de-conversion?

After learning enough to conclude that god is completely improbable, there is a point of realization, not really a choice, IMO.

OK, I just called it a choice. When I have two different things in front of me and I can only have one or the other, I hope I make correct point of realization. Big Grin

I'm going to agree to disagree on this topic (at least in my own case of atheism).
I like almost everyone who has posted on the subject and I'd rather not make enemies. Thanks
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09-08-2014, 07:20 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
(09-08-2014 05:01 PM)TheStraightener Wrote:  I don't choose to disbelieve in Goblins, Werewolves, Dracula, Magnum PI etc.

Why would god be any different?

Yes But could you choose to believe in Goblins, werewolves, and Dracula?

I could try but not succeed at believing in such things. Therefore, my not believing in them has nothing to do with choice.
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09-08-2014, 07:30 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
Jebus and Paul said faith was a gift of the spirit, and a virtue (given by the Holy Spirit). Jebus said "no one shall come to me unless the Father draw him".

Guess he forgot to draw me.

Thank Zeus.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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