Is Atheism a Choice?
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09-08-2014, 08:06 PM (This post was last modified: 09-08-2014 08:12 PM by Wicked Clown.)
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
(09-08-2014 07:30 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Jebus and Paul said faith was a gift of the spirit, and a virtue (given by the Holy Spirit). Jebus said "no one shall come to me unless the Father draw him".

Bingo!

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09-08-2014, 08:54 PM (This post was last modified: 09-08-2014 09:13 PM by Adrianime.)
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
Just because there is a finite number of outcomes (for example to believe, not believe, or be completely unsure) does not mean you choose what to believe. You can become convinced of a position. You can certainly choose to not consider opposing arguments to your position and remain willfully ignorant. Or you can choose to consider new information. If anything the choice is in what information you honestly consider, and what information you disregard.

Here is an interesting way to put it. Choice only applies to things you have control over, correct? If somebody put a gun to your head, and you were hooked up to a polygraph with a hypothetical accuracy of 100%, and they said, "BELIEVE IN GOD NOW, AND PROFESS YOUR BELIEF OR I WILL SHOOT!" Could profess belief truthfully to where the polygraph acknowledges that you chose to believe in god? This is with your life on the line. I'm assuming not. If you cannot even do something with your life on the line, is it a choice? For instance, if somebody told me to stab a cat I would say absolutely not. But if they put a gun to my head and said stab this cat or I shoot. I could physically stab a cat because that is a choose-able action. I do not see how belief is a choose-able action.

Sorry for the gruesome example, point was to choose an example that illustrates something I would normally never do.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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09-08-2014, 09:06 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
(09-08-2014 05:39 PM)pablo Wrote:  How does a person who has been fully indoctrinated into a religion suddenly become atheist without making a choice somewhere in the process of de-conversion?
That was me once. As I learned more about life, science, and as I grew up and began thinking more independently, the doubts crept in as pieces that I had been taught didn't fit with the reality around me or with common sense. So my faith began to erode. For me, it went very quickly, but I never chose it. In fact, it scared the wits out of me and I initially prayed to gawd to help me get it back because it was not something I wanted. It was definitely not a choice. But it can also be that a person seeks to learn about their religion and, as they learn the parts that were never taught to them, it makes all the difference and the doubts creep in.

I think you may be confusing the choice to seek out information with believing vs. disbelieving. You can choose things that influence one or the other, but the belief or nonbelief just happens.

(09-08-2014 06:20 PM)pablo Wrote:  I'm going to agree to disagree on this topic (at least in my own case of atheism).
I like almost everyone who has posted on the subject and I'd rather not make enemies. Thanks
It's all good. Thumbsup

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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10-08-2014, 08:05 AM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
Pablo, in the process of deconversion you begin to think more rationally toward the religion you grew up with. That critical thinking that you're now using allows you to better evaluate those claims you once accepted on faith alone without any evidence.

You make the choice to think rationally and to not accept outlandish claims unless there is evidence to back up that claim.

Its the rational thinking you choose. Atheism is a result of that rational thinking.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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10-08-2014, 09:58 AM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
Belief is not a choice. You can choose to PROFESS a belief in something even if it isn't true, but the actual belief or unbelief is not a choice.

If I tell you I had my cat type this message for me you can not CHOOSE to believe it any more than you can CHOOSE whether or not you like the taste of pickled whale blubber.

You either like the taste, or you don't. You either believe, or you don't.

"You're very clever, young man, very clever, but it's turtles all the way down!"
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10-08-2014, 10:41 AM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
So we have a general consensus. Great! Thumbsup
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10-08-2014, 10:42 AM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
Quote:Could profess belief truthfully to where the polygraph acknowledges that you chose to believe in god? [as a result of your life being on the line]

no
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10-08-2014, 01:07 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
I think it has to do with how your brain is wired. Some people are capable of blind faith and others are not. Everyone in my family is a Christian, I was raised to be a Christian, and when I hit age 12 I began to think hey, this shit makes no sense. Not a choice, just how your brain works. I couldn't make myself believe if I tried.
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12-08-2014, 01:07 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
sometimes I wish I could tell you that I'm Atheist now.  But prayer energizes me and creates a feeling of well being.  When I'm on top of a hill or deep in the heart of the forest, beholding a mountain or rainbow, beholding the sea or a magnificent sunset, all the variety of animals and plants, and all the beautiful colors that make up the world, Immediately I want to sing praises to the Creator/author/designer of it all. 

 Yesterday there was so much red, purple, yellow, blue, white, gray, and orange and many shades of each, up in the celestial dome, the desire was to Worship whatever it was that brought about the existence of this world ,the experience I was having, and all these intriguing creatures, and the joy and peace that was previously experienced when engaging in this practice or when admiring and being fascinated with that which has been mentioned.  

I still find a joy in the worship of a creator.  I think the Bible sucks Ass, and am not a believer in anyone being tossed about in flames forever, but the worship of something infinite and greater than the entire created universe combined gives me a joy and peace and fills some of this empty feeling that is usually there.  It could be the opiate of the mind.  For whatever reason, humans throughout History have always felt this need to worship and praise a creator or celestial being of some sort.  And some feel empty without it.
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12-08-2014, 02:56 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Choice?
Impulse, Rahn, Hoops. I get it. I think what got me confused partly is that I never had to de-convert from a religion.
Having literally never given it much thought either way, I viewed it as a simple choice that I didn't want to learn about religion so I didn't.

I'll never know the struggle of de-conversion, but now I can more appreciate the efforts of those who have.
I got to learn something today, thank you all. Thumbsup
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