Is Atheism a Religion.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
21-08-2013, 08:58 AM
RE: Is Atheism a Religion.
The absence of belief is not belief in absence.
The dismissal of theistic claims implies nothing further.
You, Herr Hitler, don't get to define what others mean, when they use a word.

Ooooooommmmmm.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-08-2013, 09:20 AM
RE: Is Atheism a Religion.
(20-08-2013 05:36 PM)Buddhist Alternative Wrote:  The only Non-Religion is Agnoticism. Since neither Theists
or Atheists can prove or disprove the existence of God - both
are Religions and require a Leap of Faith. Some Philosophers
believe that God exists by reason of his own necessity. But
you can go round and round with that - much like Theism
and Atheism.

What you're calling Agonisticsm we're calling atheism. Now that we've bridged that gap, let's be friends:
Theism = belief in a god or gods
Atheism = not that first thing
People can disagree on terms, but that's the broad strokes of how they tend to be used in "the atheist community".

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Hafnof's post
21-08-2013, 10:18 AM (This post was last modified: 21-08-2013 11:22 AM by Raptor Jesus.)
RE: Is Atheism a Religion.
(20-08-2013 04:43 PM)Buddhist Alternative Wrote:  ...
Buddhism in a nutshell:
1 - 18...

Buddhism in a nutshell:

1. Buddha is Not a God
Depends on what kind of Buddhist you are, Mahayana, Vajrayana, or Theravada.
Also, considering the Buddha’s birth was foretold to his mother by angels, her womb was pierced by an elephant’s tusk which then entered her womb through it. Later he was born not through her vaginal canal, but through a slit in her side (virgin birth? Maybe). He fought the god Maya who attempted to bombard him with meteors which he turned into lotus petals before they hit him. Upon becoming one with the universe (because that’s a thing you can do in Buddhism, basically become one with “god” depending on how you define that) he “decided” to stay. After death he decided to reincarnate himself into new Buddhas, or lamas. All seems very God like to me.


2. You Should Not Believe Anything Without Thinking
Except karma, samsara, nirvana, dharma. Of course you can think about these things, but if you come to realize there is no reason to believe in any of them then you’re not really a Buddhist anymore. You’re not kicked out, but you can’t really be considered a Buddhist without believing in them. So you kind of have to believe in them. You are free to think about them, but kind of need to believe them to be a Buddhist.

It’s like if I were a Christian, thought about Jesus and studied his historicity and the bible, and science and eventually decided I didn’t believe that Jesus was real or the rest of the bible, I couldn’t really still call myself a Christian. Buddhist, unlike Christians, are at least free to think about their beliefs, which is a really good thing and I do not begrudge them this. But if you stop believing them then you are no longer a Buddhist. In the end, in order to remain a Buddhist you have to think about them the same way Christians think about a man coming back to life after death. You can think about it, but only if you come to the conclusion that a man did actually in fact come back to life after being dead for three days.


3. Gods and Deities are Cultural
Like the Buddha, the Lamas and the primordial buddhas Samantabhadra, Vajradhara, Vairochana, Dharmakaya, Samantabhadra, Avalokiteśvara (that’s who the Dahlia Lama is the reincarnation of), Amida, Adi-Buddha…fat Buddha verse thin Buddha…the list just keeps going on, and on, and on, and on,…especially in Tibetan Buddhism.

4. But… Don’t worry too much about the nature of God
I don’t. In that we are in agreement. But depending on what type of Buddhist you are this may not be accurate for you.

6. The Afterlife Depends on this Life
So, you know…do believe in an unproven thing such as the afterlife, for which there is no evidence of and for which we can only speculate about at best…meaning making things up. But DO believe in that, even though there is rule number 2.

7. Books and Teachings are Very Important
All the text and teachings that teach you the stuff mentioned above.

8. Meditation is Key
Depends on what “lock” you believe in for that “key” to open. If that “lock” is to relax after a long day and clear your head, sure, no problem. But if that lock is to thin the veil between your true self and the universe in order to come to the realization that you are a prisoner of illusion, in the believing of yourself as a “self” and to let go, extinguish your flame of life, to become one with the universe with no distensions or bounders between yourself, your true self (your atman) and the ultimate reality, and realize that you are in fact all of the universe, and all of reality, and all of reality is you. You exist every were and are everything all at one time, and everywhere and all things are actually you and you are them and this is the sacred truth of Buddhism

…problem is, that’s not true…


9. Healing Comes from Mind
In the form of a placebo pill.

Healing can in fact come from positive thinking (thus why placebos work in the first place) but it also comes from medication, and surgery, and the bodies own natural immune system and healing response, which doctors and science go to great lengths to study so that they can find ways to optimize and or improve it. If I break my leg, I’m going to let a doctor, and my body heal that, not my mind.

But you may mean mental suffering; dharma. If so, tell a schizophrenic that healing comes from the mind.

“Healing comes from Mind”…that’s a platitude. It’s trite, kind of is saying something that sounds meaningful while being vague enough to not really be saying anything useful at all.


10. It’s Up To Ourselves
Platitude.

11. Our Bodies Are Precious
Platitude.

12. Your Spiritual Community is Important
Not mine. I find mine quite destructive. Thus, another platitude.

13. Interconnectedness is the Nature of Reality
I’ll give you that. But it depends on what you mean when you say that.

After all we are all far more connected to the universe that many realize. We are all star stuff as it were, and my 12 year old body’s atoms and molecules are now all out there a part of some other stuff somewhere. Part of the ocean, fishes, breathed in by other animals, or plants recombined into fruit, eaten by animals. Maybe even some of my childhood atoms and molecules are now a part of the reader of this sentence, and some of yours a part of me. Perhaps a nitrogen molecule I breathed out when I was 7 years old has wondered it’s way to the outer atmosphere and has escaped it’s bonds to the earth, and now a part of me as a child is now part you the rest of the solar system.

Or the interconnectedness of all life on earth, due to evolution.

But again you said something very vague to be interpreted however you want, so I don’t really give that to you…still a platitude.


14. It’s Good to Be Good
Platitude.

15. Compassion is Key
Platitude.

16. Sex is Neither Bad nor Good
No…it’s pretty fucking good…I don’t think Buddhist are doing it right...

17. Strive for Balance
True, but still a platitude..

18. It’s Never Too Late to Begin
You could say that about almost anything. There for it’s useless, and should be left off the list.


For a religion that is anti-speculative, there is quite a lot of speculation going on in Buddhism. Sure, you don’t waste time worrying about who shot you with that arrow, where it came from, what kind of wood it was made of, what kind of bird feathers are on it, who crafted it, etc... But you do spend a lot of time speculating about being reborn after death or becoming one with the universe.

...
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like Raptor Jesus's post
21-08-2013, 10:23 AM
RE: Is Atheism a Religion.
Why do theists and others so commonly make the same argument.

Basically it is that non belief in god/s requires the same level of faith as belief in god/s. Therefore non belief is a religion.

Without going into detail (others may have different reasons) my non belief is based on observable facts made by both myself and others. No faith whatsoever is involved.

The OP's argument is by definition. I define non belief as demanding faith and as such atheism is a religion, an argument so full of holes as to be laughable.

Yet so many make the same argument without thought. I find this very odd.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-08-2013, 10:39 AM
RE: Is Atheism a Religion.
It's odd until you realize that some people are simply ignorant of the facts

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-08-2013, 01:44 PM
Is Atheism a Religion - Well . . . .
There are almost 300 replies (mostly angry) to my comment that Atheism is a Religion. I'll make a final comment and then let the chips fall where they may.
There are unanswerable questions such as : Where did everything come from ?
Why is there something versus nothing ? No one invokes Fairies, the Easter Bunny or the Spaghetti Monster to answer those questions. Some believe that the only possible answer is a Supreme Consciousness. Some believe that the only possible answer is 'something' no one knows about yet. Since the existence or non-existence of God is an unanswerable question, it certainly requires a Leap of Faith to take either position. To the Reader who claims that no one has cured Cancer through the power of the Mind - he certainly is correct. I don't know of anyone who has done that. In an episode entitled "Is there a Sixth Sense" on 'Through The Wormhole' with Morgan Freeman - It was mentioned that in double-blind and repeatable experiments, something unexplainable is going on with the Human 'Mind'. Test Subjects asked to guess wether the Experimenter was holding a picture behind a wall guessed correctly 50% of the time - what you get from random chance. BUT - when the pictures were sexually explicit and erotic, people guessed correctly between 52 to 53 % of the time. A statistically significant difference. Einstein once remarked: "ESP if it does exist is a small invective force and has no practical value". So, although I know of no one who has cured Cancer with the Mind, I believe (yes, I did use the word believe) that the Buddhists are correct in striving for a healthy Body and Mind through clean living and Transcendential Meditation. To those who strongly believe in the non-existence of a Supreme Consciousness (Mind), I respect your Faith. I'd like to close this rambling monologue with a quote from Physicist John Wheeler when he commented on sub-atomic particles being waves and not points when they are not being observed. "Someone must be observing the Universe".
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-08-2013, 01:47 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Religion - Well . . . .
(21-08-2013 01:44 PM)Buddhist Alternative Wrote:  There are almost 300 replies (mostly angry) to my comment that Atheism is a Religion. I'll make a final comment and then let the chips fall where they may.
There are unanswerable questions such as : Where did everything come from ?
Why is there something versus nothing ? No one invokes Fairies, the Easter Bunny or the Spaghetti Monster to answer those questions. Some believe that the only possible answer is a Supreme Consciousness. Some believe that the only possible answer is 'something' no one knows about yet. Since the existence or non-existence of God is an unanswerable question, it certainly requires a Leap of Faith to take either position. To the Reader who claims that no one has cured Cancer through the power of the Mind - he certainly is correct. I don't know of anyone who has done that. In an episode entitled "Is there a Sixth Sense" on 'Through The Wormhole' with Morgan Freeman - It was mentioned that in double-blind and repeatable experiments, something unexplainable is going on with the Human 'Mind'. Test Subjects asked to guess wether the Experimenter was holding a picture behind a wall guessed correctly 50% of the time - what you get from random chance. BUT - when the pictures were sexually explicit and erotic, people guessed correctly between 52 to 53 % of the time. A statistically significant difference. Einstein once remarked: "ESP if it does exist is a small invective force and has no practical value". So, although I know of no one who has cured Cancer with the Mind, I believe (yes, I did use the word believe) that the Buddhists are correct in striving for a healthy Body and Mind through clean living and Transcendential Meditation. To those who strongly believe in the non-existence of a Supreme Consciousness (Mind), I respect your Faith. I'd like to close this rambling monologue with a quote from Physicist John Wheeler when he commented on sub-atomic particles being waves and not points when they are not being observed. "Someone must be observing the Universe".

The fact that YOU don't have the interest or mental capacity to understand something doesn't mean it didn't happen.

“One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid,
and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision.”

- Bertrand Russel
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-08-2013, 01:52 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Religion - Well . . . .
(21-08-2013 01:47 PM)eksyte Wrote:  
(21-08-2013 01:44 PM)Buddhist Alternative Wrote:  There are almost 300 replies (mostly angry) to my comment that Atheism is a Religion. I'll make a final comment and then let the chips fall where they may.
There are unanswerable questions such as : Where did everything come from ?
Why is there something versus nothing ? No one invokes Fairies, the Easter Bunny or the Spaghetti Monster to answer those questions. Some believe that the only possible answer is a Supreme Consciousness. Some believe that the only possible answer is 'something' no one knows about yet. Since the existence or non-existence of God is an unanswerable question, it certainly requires a Leap of Faith to take either position. To the Reader who claims that no one has cured Cancer through the power of the Mind - he certainly is correct. I don't know of anyone who has done that. In an episode entitled "Is there a Sixth Sense" on 'Through The Wormhole' with Morgan Freeman - It was mentioned that in double-blind and repeatable experiments, something unexplainable is going on with the Human 'Mind'. Test Subjects asked to guess wether the Experimenter was holding a picture behind a wall guessed correctly 50% of the time - what you get from random chance. BUT - when the pictures were sexually explicit and erotic, people guessed correctly between 52 to 53 % of the time. A statistically significant difference. Einstein once remarked: "ESP if it does exist is a small invective force and has no practical value". So, although I know of no one who has cured Cancer with the Mind, I believe (yes, I did use the word believe) that the Buddhists are correct in striving for a healthy Body and Mind through clean living and Transcendential Meditation. To those who strongly believe in the non-existence of a Supreme Consciousness (Mind), I respect your Faith. I'd like to close this rambling monologue with a quote from Physicist John Wheeler when he commented on sub-atomic particles being waves and not points when they are not being observed. "Someone must be observing the Universe".

The fact that YOU don't have the interest or mental capacity to understand something doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Bertrand Russell is also my favorite Philosopher. My favorite BR Quotes are:
"You should be skeptical of everything including yourself" and "A foolish idea, because it is believed in by millions, does not make that idea any less foolish"
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-08-2013, 02:08 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Religion - Well . . . .
To call something "unexplainable" is defeatist crap.

[img]

via GIPHY

[/img]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-08-2013, 02:13 PM
RE: Is Atheism a Religion - Well . . . .
(21-08-2013 01:44 PM)Buddhist Alternative Wrote:  There are almost 300 replies (mostly angry) to my comment that Atheism is a Religion. I'll make a final comment and then let the chips fall where they may.
There are unanswerable questions such as : Where did everything come from ?
Why is there something versus nothing ? No one invokes Fairies, the Easter Bunny or the Spaghetti Monster to answer those questions. Some believe that the only possible answer is a Supreme Consciousness. Some believe that the only possible answer is 'something' no one knows about yet. Since the existence or non-existence of God is an unanswerable question, it certainly requires a Leap of Faith to take either position. To the Reader who claims that no one has cured Cancer through the power of the Mind - he certainly is correct. I don't know of anyone who has done that. In an episode entitled "Is there a Sixth Sense" on 'Through The Wormhole' with Morgan Freeman - It was mentioned that in double-blind and repeatable experiments, something unexplainable is going on with the Human 'Mind'. Test Subjects asked to guess wether the Experimenter was holding a picture behind a wall guessed correctly 50% of the time - what you get from random chance. BUT - when the pictures were sexually explicit and erotic, people guessed correctly between 52 to 53 % of the time. A statistically significant difference. Einstein once remarked: "ESP if it does exist is a small invective force and has no practical value". So, although I know of no one who has cured Cancer with the Mind, I believe (yes, I did use the word believe) that the Buddhists are correct in striving for a healthy Body and Mind through clean living and Transcendential Meditation. To those who strongly believe in the non-existence of a Supreme Consciousness (Mind), I respect your Faith. I'd like to close this rambling monologue with a quote from Physicist John Wheeler when he commented on sub-atomic particles being waves and not points when they are not being observed. "Someone must be observing the Universe".

You seem to misunderstand the nature of skepticism.

"Where does everything come from?" is an unanswered question; we do not know if it is unanswerable or not. Physicists are trying to answer it. If we do, in fact, answer it, then I think we have answered the God question as well.

I do not believe in a Supreme Consciousness because there is no evidence. This is not the same as my claiming it does not exist.

And Wheeler's comment is due to his interpretation of quantum mechanics which is not universally shared by physicists.

I hope you are well and happy in your practice of Buddhism, but please stop telling atheists what they believe.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like Chas's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: