Is Christianity Evil?
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18-05-2017, 01:37 PM
RE: Is Christianity Evil?
(18-05-2017 11:31 AM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  
(18-05-2017 11:12 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I've come to agree with this. Everyone needs some sort of community. That's what it's mostly about for almost everyone. 99.99 % aren't really interested in debates or theology or the divisions it causes. If 50 % of Lutherans can't tell us who Martin Luther was, and 50 % of Catholics can't say what "transubstantiation" is, (Pew data), it isn't about anything overtly intellectual. For most, I think it's a tool to bring up the kids with some sort of values, (absent any other way they know of, or have to do that), and community for the old folks.

Pretty much this.

I'd be willing to be a large percentage don't even really believe the things their church teaches. I know when I was CoC, there were people that showed up every service and bible class that I know didn't really believe Jebus was ever really "coming back" or really took it seriously in their "heart of hearts". I think many at best thought maybe it was kind of true and that we just don't understand it and hoped it would all work itself out after they die.
I would say that this is about lack of knowledge not belief - one can't be serious about dogma one don't even know exist. And how many theists are aware of nuances of their sect theologies?

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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19-05-2017, 07:24 AM
RE: Is Christianity Evil?
Just to have a slightly different take (because, why not?): The OP's question is really the wrong question, because it's really asking, "Does Christianity embody one of its negative made up notions rather than one of its positive ones?" Because that's what evil is -- a theological construct built on top of the theological construct called "sin" which is build on top of the theological construct of "divine command theory". Also has a lot of ascetic overtones, the notion that sin or evil are things-in-themselves that become peskily lodged in "the flesh" and that we can never truly be free from until we die and shed our sinful flesh and leave the sinful material world.

The better and more useful question is, "Is Christianity doing harm in the word, rather than good?". This is a far less subjective question, although admittedly still pretty subjective. But at least we can take a stab at evaluating the question based on what effects Christianity has in the real world, rather than whether it conforms to someone's arbitrary definition of sin or evil or whether it obeys the imagined commands of an invisible sky wizard.

My answer would be that individual Christians would to some extent be positive or negative actors regardless of their religious beliefs, so the meta-question is, do Christian beliefs amplify negative actions more than positive ones? And I would say yes, they do, given that the Christian ruleset is based on asserted commands of a deity rather than on any direct or indirect assessment of whether a particular action is a boon or a bane. That means they are going to be wrong or inflexible more often than not.

This also would tend to be truer the farther we move along through history and the extent to which the original commands made sense becomes more and more dicey in a modern context. One can argue that Christianity itself was a reboot / simplification of Judaism once it became apparent that its many rules and regulations were impossible to consistently live up to. Christianity has proven pretty durable, probably more durable than orthodox Judaism, because it's based on more subjective and flexible ideas such as the golden rule and grace (unmerited favor, the notion that you can't be righteous no matter how hard you try and so god has to just love you anyway, warts and all). However, the more fundamentalist / literalist / authoritarian Christians end up barnacling themselves with excessively specific taboos and become more like the predecessor religion of Judaism.
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19-05-2017, 04:41 PM
RE: Is Christianity Evil?
(06-03-2017 06:04 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Christianity may not be evil, but a fair share of Christians probably qualify.

But, of course christianity is Evil.

Romans 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except by the appointment of Jesus, and the authorities that exist have been instituted by Jesus. 13:2 So the person who resists such authority resists the ordinance of Jesus, and those who resist will incur judgment.

1 Timothy 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

Among things, christianity teaches people to be good slaves, which is inherently evil.

The enemy numbered six hundred - including women and children - and we abolished them utterly, leaving not even a baby alive to cry for its dead mother. This is incomparably the greatest victory that was ever achieved by the Christian soldiers of the United States. -- Mark Twain
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19-05-2017, 04:44 PM
RE: Is Christianity Evil?
(19-05-2017 04:41 PM)Mircea Wrote:  
(06-03-2017 06:04 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Christianity may not be evil, but a fair share of Christians probably qualify.

But, of course christianity is Evil.

Romans 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except by the appointment of Jesus, and the authorities that exist have been instituted by Jesus. 13:2 So the person who resists such authority resists the ordinance of Jesus, and those who resist will incur judgment.

1 Timothy 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

Among things, christianity teaches people to be good slaves, which is inherently evil.

Nothing more need be said!

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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19-05-2017, 08:50 PM
RE: Is Christianity Evil?
(19-05-2017 04:41 PM)Mircea Wrote:  
(06-03-2017 06:04 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Christianity may not be evil, but a fair share of Christians probably qualify.

But, of course christianity is Evil.

Romans 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except by the appointment of Jesus, and the authorities that exist have been instituted by Jesus. 13:2 So the person who resists such authority resists the ordinance of Jesus, and those who resist will incur judgment.

1 Timothy 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

Among things, christianity teaches people to be good slaves, which is inherently evil.

Which lends some credence to the notion that Christianity was invented by Paul at the behest of the Romans, to quiet rebellious Jews in occupied Israel.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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19-05-2017, 08:52 PM
RE: Is Christianity Evil?
Considering "nice" Christians tend to ignore almost all of the Old Testament, and even have to cherry pick the New Testament, I'd say Christianity is a vile bag of shit. Just my subjective opinion. The more they ignore their book, the nicer they are. And I'm not saying they can't be nice, not at all.

I don't get why people continue to hold the whole book up as anything more than ancient man's attempts to describe the world around them and "understand God". Clearly, they don't think it's worthy of actually following. Anyone who did would be considered a deranged maniac by today's standards. It would be like me holding up a book of "definitive ultimate science" and then making excuses for why most of it is actually wrong and I only make use of a few small sections which actually make any sense.

Stop these stupid oral myths for fuck's sake about it being a "divinely inspired book". Nice Christians are clearly judging the deity doing this inspiring to be a bad example. It makes my head spin.

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20-05-2017, 04:57 AM
RE: Is Christianity Evil?
(19-05-2017 08:52 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  Considering "nice" Christians tend to ignore almost all of the Old Testament, and even have to cherry pick the New Testament, I'd say Christianity is a vile bag of shit. Just my subjective opinion. The more they ignore their book, the nicer they are.
I'd say it's highly dated and deeply flawed. Like all holy books it is a vague template so that it can be treated as "timeless" and fit to the needs of any era.

Of course there's nothing vague about, e.g., stoning a difficult child for not being sufficiently submissive. But the fact that these rules and stories are safely in the distant past, it's easy to say that those were different days and a different culture and to assume that god has brought us along to a better place.

I agree with you that it's absurd on its face to suggest it's inspired by some sort of benevolent, compassionate, righteous, immutable deity. It bears all the marks of a collection of primitive human-authored, committee-selected books. Just as experienced life bears all the hallmarks of an indifferent universe, there is no reason to see god in it and much reason to see man in it.
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20-05-2017, 05:23 AM
RE: Is Christianity Evil?
(19-05-2017 07:24 AM)mordant Wrote:  The better and more useful question is, "Is Christianity doing harm in the word, rather than good?". This is a far less subjective question, although admittedly still pretty subjective. But at least we can take a stab at evaluating the question based on what effects Christianity has in the real world...

I'd agree with the "good" side. Christianity per se obviously equates with far more good or positivism in the world than harm or evil. It's important to separate so-called Christians from Christianity as a whole. We can all cite cases of modern crimes committed against society by Christian followers, but then there are also plenty of atheist (non-theist) rapist, muggers, and murderers out there.

Although having said that, there are far more religionists in US jails than atheists—measured on a pro rata basis—from a sample of 218,000 in Federal prisons.

What Percentage of US Prisoners Are Atheists?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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20-05-2017, 09:15 AM
RE: Is Christianity Evil?
(20-05-2017 05:23 AM)SYZ Wrote:  Christianity per se obviously equates with far more good or positivism in the world than harm or evil.

I dispute that. It's not obvious to me. They're all woo merchants. Individual Christians can certainly be good, but the religion as a whole... Nuh uh. They teach people to be sheep. They make a virtue out of belief without evidence. They encourage beliefs like homophobia, the anti-vaxx movement and anti-science bullshit in general. They teach people to be gullible, which makes them vulnerable to people like Trump.

If the good they do is highly visible, the invisible bad I think probably outweighs it.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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20-05-2017, 10:19 AM
RE: Is Christianity Evil?
Yes.

Next question.

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