Is Christianity bad for society?
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06-11-2010, 05:32 PM
 
Is Christianity bad for society?
I would say that overall that religion as a whole (regardless of its 'truth') has been an overall boon to society. I know that the crusades, and other violent deeds have been done in the name of religion; though some of these bad things have been done in the name of a particular religion, it does not mean this particular religion was the CAUSE of the event. Correlation is not causation: it could have been some outside factor, 'z'.

If religion has been a boon to society, should we really be trying to do away with it? After all, 'truth' is a very subjective word- I do not think we should worry about what is materially correct.
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06-11-2010, 06:41 PM
RE: Is Christianity bad for society?
No, correlation does not equal causation but religion was not a mere correlation in the Crusades. It wasn't just a coincidence that the thousands of soldiers who marched to the middle east to wage war were all Christians. It wasn't happenstance that all the victims of the Inquisition were non-Christians. It wasn't random chance that the very people who were victims of the Holocaust were those who Catholics and Lutherans - the two most predominant religions in German - happened to blame for the crucifixion of Christ. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of example specific to Christianity where religion was used as a direct cause for the most heinous of acts. It wasn't some "outside factor", it was religion.

Now, I'm sure someone (I'm thinking Ghost but it could be anyone) is going to come back and talk about the actual motivations of some of these things and say religion was a subterfuge. I suppose in some instances that could be true but that is also completely irrelevant. The motivations of the organizers of these atrocities is not relevant. What is relevant is that to motivate people to go to war or commit wholesale slaughter of innocents they invoked the idea of God's will, and people believed them and followed.

Religion has also served to justify slavery, the subjugation of women, the basis for some of histories most despotic rulers, and has served to keep man in an intellectual dark age for far longer than necessary. The Church helped propagate the feudal land system of medieval Europe, and relegated millions of people to the role of work horse.

Yep, religion has been like one non-stop party for thousands of years. I say we keep it until the body count is high enough that we can build a stair case to walk to Jupiter. I figure we are 90% of the way there now if we go back the start of monotheistic religion.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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06-11-2010, 07:57 PM
RE: Is Christianity bad for society?
Frederick
Have you OBJECTIVELY and THOROUGHLY observed a society without christianity? Have you OBJECTIVELY and THOROUGHLY observed a society without any religion at all? Do you have stacks of VERIFIABLE DATA to back your claims?
BnW has backed up his statements with verifiable historic data. You have stated your opinion. BnW has an arguement that has positive support, you need verifiable data before your claim has any support.
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06-11-2010, 10:41 PM
 
RE: Is Christianity bad for society?
(06-11-2010 07:57 PM)No J. Wrote:  Frederick
Have you OBJECTIVELY and THOROUGHLY observed a society without christianity? Have you OBJECTIVELY and THOROUGHLY observed a society without any religion at all? Do you have stacks of VERIFIABLE DATA to back your claims?
BnW has backed up his statements with verifiable historic data. You have stated your opinion. BnW has an arguement that has positive support, you need verifiable data before your claim has any support.

What I maintain is simple: the status quo is superior to a world without religion. The driving forces of man will conceal themselves with whatever they need to: religion has UNFORTUNATELY been used as a scapegoat more often, as it is so widespread. BnW has basically said what I told posters not too: comment on the status quo. We need to examine a world without religion, and compare it to our world now.

Reasons why status quo is better:
-unity
-humanitarian aid
-easy explanation for the masses
-a tenable government
-filling the god whole
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07-11-2010, 12:08 AM
RE: Is Christianity bad for society?
Five things.

BnW, don't drag me into your arguments by saying that I'll say something before I've even read it. Speak for yourself.

Second, of course various Christian organisations have done terrible things. But these same organisations have done incredibly good things. Organisations of pure evil are the stuff of melodrama, not reality. To characterise all of Christianity as evil is melodramatic. To champion erradicating it based on its worst qualities is to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Third, the idea that war, war crimes, genocide, slavery, subjugation, marginalisation, despotism, control and labour exploitation will disappear
without religion is demonstrably laughable.

Organisations have power. They wield it. People get hurt. That's how it works everywhere. But to suggest that these same organisations are incapable of acts of good is ridiculous.

Can Christianity be a force for good. Of course. There are countless and well documented accounts of Christians doing acts of good. Do Christian organisations have a lot to answer for? Of course they do. But so does the US government, BP, the Spanish Monarchy and the Marine Corps.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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07-11-2010, 12:30 AM
RE: Is Christianity bad for society?
Of Course religion is a great evil not just to society but to humanity as a whole.

Why? It's simple.

By placing god on top of the food chain we devalue ourselves as less then another being. By labeling people as just servants of god we can justify all kinds of acts against each other in service to Yahweh or other gods. When people put a personal relationship with god above other people bad things happen.

Take the gay issue for example. The only reason so many people have issues with many gay people is strictly due to it being a "sin". In other words most of the hate stems from the fact it's apparently repulsive to god.

If God were out of the picture and humans valued each other as much as we value our relationship with god then we would likely make more of an effort to understand each other rather then just compare one another to "Morality" as laid out in an ancient book.

Of course this is but one very short and small summery of the idea but you get the picture. By glorifying god we dehumanize ourselves.
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07-11-2010, 02:04 AM
RE: Is Christianity bad for society?
(06-11-2010 10:41 PM)frederick_wittman Wrote:  What I maintain is simple: the status quo is superior to a world without religion. The driving forces of man will conceal themselves with whatever they need to: religion has UNFORTUNATELY been used as a scapegoat more often, as it is so widespread. BnW has basically said what I told posters not too: comment on the status quo. We need to examine a world without religion, and compare it to our world now.

Reasons why status quo is better:
-unity
-humanitarian aid
-easy explanation for the masses
-a tenable government
-filling the god whole

Your reasons for the status quo being better are absurd. What makes you think religion equals unity? Do you thinks without a church to go to, and a god to worship, people will lose their sense of community? Ridiculous.
Will humanitarian aid somehow disappear with religion? So religion is the only source of morality and compassion for our fellow man? News to me.
Easy explaination for the masses????? I am sorry, but that statement borders on stupidity. How is it better for the masses to believe a lie? Your "easy explaination" is the very thing that religion has used as a means of controlling the masses for ceturies. Do you think thats a good thing?
You'll have to clarify what you mean about religion being tied to a "tenable government". And I have absolutely no clue what "filling the god whole" means. I assume you mean god "hole", but what kind of hole is god filling?

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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07-11-2010, 02:18 AM
 
RE: Is Christianity bad for society?
I believe both BnW's and Ghost's posts are completely justified. Religion is responsible for many great and horrible things. However, in reference to frederick stating that it's not important whether religion is based on fact or fiction, if it does well in the world it should be left untouched (my interpretation of his statement, if I have misunderstood please correct me frederick). By doing so you disregard the basis of which we have built our knowledge of the world. To believe things that aren't true, regardless of the effect of such belief, is against scientific method and promotes the blind ignorance that should not be encouraged within humanity.
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07-11-2010, 05:21 AM
RE: Is Christianity bad for society?
If religion would disappear, it wouldn't automatically reset all its bad things. But if religion is given up through thinking, education and reasoning on an individual level, people might become more good when one thinks, for example, ''why discrimite gays?'' and when one thinks about it scientifically without leaning on holy books and such, the one won't find a reason. I think it was Dawkins who said something like ''morality should be reasoned, argued and discussed''.

I don't think I was very successfull in putting this to words, but perhaps I'll try again when I've woken up.

Correct me when I'm wrong.
Accept me or go to hell.
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07-11-2010, 05:23 AM
 
RE: Is Christianity bad for society?
(07-11-2010 12:30 AM)Godless Wrote:  Of Course religion is a great evil not just to society but to humanity as a whole.

Why? It's simple.

By placing god on top of the food chain we devalue ourselves as less then another being. By labeling people as just servants of god we can justify all kinds of acts against each other in service to Yahweh or other gods. When people put a personal relationship with god above other people bad things happen.

Take the gay issue for example. The only reason so many people have issues with many gay people is strictly due to it being a "sin". In other words most of the hate stems from the fact it's apparently repulsive to god.

If God were out of the picture and humans valued each other as much as we value our relationship with god then we would likely make more of an effort to understand each other rather then just compare one another to "Morality" as laid out in an ancient book.

Of course this is but one very short and small summery of the idea but you get the picture. By glorifying god we dehumanize ourselves.

In an Evangelical Christian society you put god first then others then yourself. This would result in you serving others not treating them horribly in fact the bible teaches tolerance not hatred.
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