Is Evolution Moral?
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15-08-2017, 07:39 AM
RE: Is Evolution Moral?
(15-08-2017 07:35 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 07:28 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  The suffering is not caused by evolution.

Why not?

Prove a negative?

Why would evolution cause suffering?
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15-08-2017, 07:41 AM
RE: Is Evolution Moral?
The two books I give my cousins when they ask about evolution:

[Image: EvolutionForDummies.jpg]

[Image: 51lQlvzbD7L.jpg]

One for the theory, one for development of the theory.
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15-08-2017, 07:42 AM
RE: Is Evolution Moral?
(15-08-2017 07:39 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 07:35 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  Why not?

Prove a negative?

Why would evolution cause suffering?

Evolution is a process. Suffering can be (and most often is) part of that process.
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15-08-2017, 07:52 AM
RE: Is Evolution Moral?
(15-08-2017 07:42 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 07:39 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  Prove a negative?

Why would evolution cause suffering?

Evolution is a process. Suffering can be (and most often is) part of that process.

Prove that. No more bald assertions. And if you cite a TV show I'll probably laugh so hard you can here me from there.
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15-08-2017, 08:01 AM
RE: Is Evolution Moral?
(15-08-2017 07:52 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  Prove that. No more bald assertions. And if you cite a TV show I'll probably laugh so hard you can here me from there.

This is silly. Dinosaurs. To us they "blinked out" but to the dinosaurs, there was suffocating, burning, starvation. But I guess I can't "prove it" but we're butting up against common sense here.

Fast land mammals? The ability to slightly outrun a cheetah? An antelope doesn't have enough of a central nervous systems to suffer fear? The slightly slower antelope didn't know suffering when caught by the cheetah?
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15-08-2017, 08:20 AM
RE: Is Evolution Moral?
(15-08-2017 08:01 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 07:52 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  Prove that. No more bald assertions. And if you cite a TV show I'll probably laugh so hard you can here me from there.

This is silly. Dinosaurs. To us they "blinked out" but to the dinosaurs, there was suffocating, burning, starvation. But I guess I can't "prove it" but we're butting up against common sense here.

Fast land mammals? The ability to slightly outrun a cheetah? An antelope doesn't have enough of a central nervous systems to suffer fear? The slightly slower antelope didn't know suffering when caught by the cheetah?

First off, good sense is NOT common. Proved that already.

And you won't support your point with anything but speculations, so you can't support it.

Finally, evolution is change through time. Chuck Darwin said that. Didn't say suffering was inherent or required.
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15-08-2017, 08:23 AM
RE: Is Evolution Moral?
(15-08-2017 08:20 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 08:01 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  This is silly. Dinosaurs. To us they "blinked out" but to the dinosaurs, there was suffocating, burning, starvation. But I guess I can't "prove it" but we're butting up against common sense here.

Fast land mammals? The ability to slightly outrun a cheetah? An antelope doesn't have enough of a central nervous systems to suffer fear? The slightly slower antelope didn't know suffering when caught by the cheetah?

First off, good sense is NOT common. Proved that already.

And you won't support your point with anything but speculations, so you can't support it.

Finally, evolution is change through time. Chuck Darwin said that. Didn't say suffering was inherent or required.

Is my outrageous assertion that sentient creatures experience suffering really just speculation? What would you ask of me to "prove" it?
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15-08-2017, 08:25 AM
RE: Is Evolution Moral?
(15-08-2017 08:23 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 08:20 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  First off, good sense is NOT common. Proved that already.

And you won't support your point with anything but speculations, so you can't support it.

Finally, evolution is change through time. Chuck Darwin said that. Didn't say suffering was inherent or required.

Is my outrageous assertion that sentient creatures experience suffering really just speculation? What would you ask of me to "prove" it?
You've changed your claim I see.
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15-08-2017, 08:38 AM
RE: Is Evolution Moral?
(15-08-2017 08:25 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 08:23 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  Is my outrageous assertion that sentient creatures experience suffering really just speculation? What would you ask of me to "prove" it?
You've changed your claim I see.

Sometimes we must go a step back to go forward. Do you or do you not accept my example of an antelope getting hunted and killed as "suffering"? If that is speculation to you that remains unproven we're not on the same planet and we're both wasting our time talking to each other.

If it is suffering, then clearly it is a thing that takes place during the process of evolution. Evolution is a process. In the course of that process suffering occurs. You don't have to dig your heels in on this.
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15-08-2017, 10:16 AM
RE: Is Evolution Moral?
(15-08-2017 08:38 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 08:25 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  You've changed your claim I see.

Sometimes we must go a step back to go forward. Do you or do you not accept my example of an antelope getting hunted and killed as "suffering"? If that is speculation to you that remains unproven we're not on the same planet and we're both wasting our time talking to each other.

If it is suffering, then clearly it is a thing that takes place during the process of evolution. Evolution is a process. In the course of that process suffering occurs. You don't have to dig your heels in on this.
You haven't shown that evolution causes suffering. You have a magic word, "process" but fuck-all to support it. Don't be stupid.
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