Is Evolution Moral?
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15-08-2017, 10:33 AM
RE: Is Evolution Moral?
(15-08-2017 10:16 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 08:38 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  Sometimes we must go a step back to go forward. Do you or do you not accept my example of an antelope getting hunted and killed as "suffering"? If that is speculation to you that remains unproven we're not on the same planet and we're both wasting our time talking to each other.

If it is suffering, then clearly it is a thing that takes place during the process of evolution. Evolution is a process. In the course of that process suffering occurs. You don't have to dig your heels in on this.
You haven't shown that evolution causes suffering. You have a magic word, "process" but fuck-all to support it. Don't be stupid.

Because a word befuddles you doesn't mean it's magic. War is a process. You could find a lot of definitions of war that don't include the term "suffering" or even "death." By your logic War doesn't cause suffering or death, I guess.

We use words to try to describe reality. When you say "evolution" and imagine what reality is going on, how can you not see in the PROCESS the untold amount of suffering from famine, tooth and claw, starvation, etc.? I have to be "off the grid" for about 30 hours so if I don't reply I am not ignoring you.
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15-08-2017, 10:36 AM
RE: Is Evolution Moral?
You claim evolution requires suffering. That's a bald assertion on your part. You have demonstrated that you can't support that claim. Try staying off the web for 300 hours.
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15-08-2017, 06:19 PM
RE: Is Evolution Moral?
Quote:“Here's the Idiot's Guide to Evolution, read up.”

Don't be stupid.

Try staying off the web for 300 hours.

I'm not sure where the hostility is coming from. I don't remember any previous exchanges with you and I thought I was being reasonable during this exchange but I don't want to be a punching bag forever. Maybe you're pissed because I beat your ass in some previous debate and I've forgotten about it.

You've made some stupid assertions and you can't back them up and you're in a hole and you keep digging. But by all means continue. This is, after all, a conversation about suffering. Having stumbled around for several posts, you now say about me:

Quote:You claim evolution requires suffering.

You are either stupid or a liar. I half-think you are trolling me so the one who spends the time going back and getting the facts straight is the loser, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and I have some time. You said, earlier:

Quote:Evolution doesn't require suffering.

It was a fair point. I had used the word "inevitably" about suffering while describing evolutionary processes, which was wrong. "Inevitably" means "can't happen without" but I didn't mean ALL evolution occurs with suffering (as if it's "required") I meant suffering is "inevitably" going to occur at some times. In a baseball game, "inevitably" a player is going to catch a baseball. It doesn't mean that at some times the ball is not being caught. Obviously some critters are literally not capable, because of little or no pain sensors or nervous systems, of feeling "suffering." At that point in the conversation I did not yet know you're not interested in an honest conversation, you're just trying to fuck me over so I very graciously responded:

Quote:I shouldn't have used the word "inevitably" but if any five minutes of The Nature Channel is to believed, there's quite a bit of suffering going on out there as species rise and fall, even as we speak. And to be fair my next sentence said:
Quote:"If the process involves needless avoidable suffering"

TWICE, not once but twice I conceded that “required” was not what I was saying, but that obviously suffering goes on to some degree. Sometimes there is suffering (antelope being hunted down and slaughtered) sometimes not (anyone taking antibiotics and killing whatever microscopic bugs).
But wait, there's more! Me, a post or two later, clearly:

Quote:Suffering can be (and most often is) part of that process.

Gawdzilla, is that the same thing as saying suffering is required? Please come clean and admit that I was never saying that there MUST BE suffering during evolution, but that duh, it happens. Then please defend this other dopey comment of yours:

Quote:Why would evolution cause suffering?

Try to imagine every furry or hairy mammal you can think of that lives in a cold climate. Imagine over millions of years the critters dying of the cold as their slightly more furry and slightly more hairy siblings survived to reproduce and pass on their slightly more furry and slightly more hairy genes...you don't see the suffering there? I know this is too abstract for you and too much of a mere assertion, and you're big on proof, so take your dog and throw him in your freezer for a few hours and get back to us with the results.
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16-08-2017, 05:07 AM
RE: Is Evolution Moral?
Still no proof. Didn't think so.
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16-08-2017, 05:32 AM
RE: Is Evolution Moral?
(07-08-2017 11:50 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  When one species evolves and finds itself better adapted than other species, is it immoral for the better evolved species to displace the less suited??

Or is that simply how evolution works?

Morality is a human construct as far as I can tell.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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16-08-2017, 05:35 AM
RE: Is Evolution Moral?
(16-08-2017 05:32 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 11:50 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  When one species evolves and finds itself better adapted than other species, is it immoral for the better evolved species to displace the less suited??

Or is that simply how evolution works?

Morality is a human construct as far as I can tell.
This.

Is it moral to feed your family? The digger wasps feed theirs. Good parents, pillars of the community. The caterpillars they lay their eggs in might disagree, of course.
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16-08-2017, 10:14 AM
RE: Is Evolution Moral?
(16-08-2017 05:07 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  Still no proof. Didn't think so.

For somebody named "Gawdzilla" you came up weak and small. I can tell you just want this to be over, I don't blame you.
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16-08-2017, 10:22 AM
RE: Is Evolution Moral?
(16-08-2017 10:14 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(16-08-2017 05:07 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  Still no proof. Didn't think so.

For somebody named "Gawdzilla" you came up weak and small. I can tell you just want this to be over, I don't blame you.

See, there's another way you're ignorant.

Now, prove evolution requires suffering. Or just give up trolling.
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16-08-2017, 10:25 AM
RE: Is Evolution Moral?
(16-08-2017 10:22 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(16-08-2017 10:14 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  For somebody named "Gawdzilla" you came up weak and small. I can tell you just want this to be over, I don't blame you.

See, there's another way you're ignorant.

Now, prove evolution requires suffering. Or just give up trolling.

Now we're back to "Is Gawdzilla" mis-representing what I said because he's stupid or a liar? I was giving you the benefit of the doubt but now I see you're a liar.
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16-08-2017, 10:31 AM
RE: Is Evolution Moral?
(16-08-2017 10:25 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(16-08-2017 10:22 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  See, there's another way you're ignorant.

Now, prove evolution requires suffering. Or just give up trolling.

Now we're back to "Is Gawdzilla" mis-representing what I said because he's stupid or a liar? I was giving you the benefit of the doubt but now I see you're a liar.

Yep, I pose a question you can't answer and I'm a liar. The Single Digit IQ Club wants you back.
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