Is Evolution a Belief? (Clearly Not)
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22-05-2014, 09:01 PM
RE: Is Evolution a Belief? (Clearly Not)
(22-05-2014 05:02 PM)Switz5678 Wrote:  
(15-05-2014 09:15 AM)Chas Wrote:  It has not been found to exist in nature.

In some aspect I agree, but from another aspect I disagree.

IR has been found, and used. When we use probability to predict event 'X' in the future we are acknowledging that the inputs are IR. If they weren't, and we did know how each inputs interacted fully we wouldn't have chance. Now whether IR exists in nature outside of human intellect I don't know

IR?

What you describe has nothing to do with Irreducible Complexity.

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22-05-2014, 09:31 PM
RE: Is Evolution a Belief? (Clearly Not)
(22-05-2014 09:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  IR?

What you describe has nothing to do with Irreducible Complexity.


Perhaps not...

Say we want to know what the probability of Apophis hitting the earth.. We are in a manner implying IR of the inputs.. IF we could reduce down each individual input and how they would interact we wouldn't have a chance, just a certainty. IR doesn't exist outside of human intellect, but we do acknowledge some form of it when we use probability in application.

Does it exist then? In my opinion no not outside of imperfect human intellect
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22-05-2014, 11:29 PM
RE: Is Evolution a Belief? (Clearly Not)
(22-05-2014 09:31 PM)Switz5678 Wrote:  
(22-05-2014 09:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  IR?

What you describe has nothing to do with Irreducible Complexity.


Perhaps not...

Say we want to know what the probability of Apophis hitting the earth.. We are in a manner implying IR of the inputs.. IF we could reduce down each individual input and how they would interact we wouldn't have a chance, just a certainty. IR doesn't exist outside of human intellect, but we do acknowledge some form of it when we use probability in application.

Does it exist then? In my opinion no not outside of imperfect human intellect

What is IR?

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23-05-2014, 02:54 PM
RE: Is Evolution a Belief? (Clearly Not)
(22-05-2014 11:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  What is IR?

Perhaps it's Incomplexible Reducibility?

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23-05-2014, 03:13 PM
RE: Is Evolution a Belief? (Clearly Not)
What do you call a horny gay man?

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A Homo Erectus.

Anyway, Great read there. I enjoyed it.


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23-05-2014, 03:20 PM
RE: Is Evolution a Belief? (Clearly Not)
(22-05-2014 11:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-05-2014 09:31 PM)Switz5678 Wrote:  Perhaps not...

Say we want to know what the probability of Apophis hitting the earth.. We are in a manner implying IR of the inputs.. IF we could reduce down each individual input and how they would interact we wouldn't have a chance, just a certainty. IR doesn't exist outside of human intellect, but we do acknowledge some form of it when we use probability in application.

Does it exist then? In my opinion no not outside of imperfect human intellect

What is IR?
My take is
IR is a term used to combat Evolution in which the assertion is made that a said component/organ is too complex to have evolved from simple processes. If you were to find something truly IR you would break evolution.

Perhaps if you have some knowledge you could.. Idk.. Share it! Instead I get the sense you are trying bait me into putting a foot into my own mouth. What is your motivation?

IR isn't a concept which only resides within evolution. Either we can ascertain the inputs of said output or we can not => IR or NONIR. It just so happens that in Evolution we haven't found IR.

obviously I could be wrong, but I'm not here in the first place to prove I'm right. I just like to share ideas, and learn from others who might be more knowledgeable in areas that I'm not
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23-05-2014, 03:35 PM
RE: Is Evolution a Belief? (Clearly Not)
(23-05-2014 03:20 PM)Switz5678 Wrote:  
(22-05-2014 11:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  What is IR?
My take is
IR is a term used to combat Evolution in which the assertion is made that a said component/organ is too complex to have evolved from simple processes. If you were to find something truly IR you would break evolution.

Perhaps if you have some knowledge you could.. Idk.. Share it! Instead I get the sense you are trying bait me into putting a foot into my own mouth. What is your motivation?

IR isn't a concept which only resides within evolution. Either we can ascertain the inputs of said output or we can not => IR or NONIR. It just so happens that in Evolution we haven't found IR.

obviously I could be wrong, but I'm not here in the first place to prove I'm right. I just like to share ideas, and learn from others who might be more knowledgeable in areas that I'm not

I'm not trying to do anything but find out what IR is. I don't play dishonest debate games.

I think you mean IC - Irreducible Complexity. And it's not that we haven't found it in evolution, we haven't found in in nature at all.

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23-05-2014, 03:57 PM
RE: Is Evolution a Belief? (Clearly Not)
(23-05-2014 03:35 PM)Chas Wrote:  I'm not trying to do anything but find out what IR is. I don't play dishonest debate games.

I think you mean IC - Irreducible Complexity. And it's not that we haven't found it in evolution, we haven't found in in nature at all.

My fault on IR.. I read something earlier in the thread that led me to believe it was the shortened version of Irreducible Complexity. Perhaps I was a bit touchy.. I appreciate the heads up
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23-05-2014, 05:05 PM
RE: Is Evolution a Belief? (Clearly Not)
I'm not a scientist but love to read about science and have a basic understanding of evolution. When I've attempted to explain evolution to theists they invariably get stuck on the word "theory" and can't get past it being just a "hunch". And even when I give them the definition of a Scientific Theory they swirl around that word and never get past it. I'm probably not explaining it well enough but sometimes I wish science had a completely different word for Theory. A word that doesn't have two definitions. I donno, maybe it wouldn't help in the least but, eh.... maybe it would.

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Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
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