Is God Omnipotent
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10-04-2017, 08:26 AM
RE: Is God Omnipotent
(10-04-2017 04:09 AM)Norm Deplume Wrote:  
(09-04-2017 09:46 PM)JesseB Wrote:  I'm pretty sure we're talking about Odin. I mean he is one of the most badass gods you can pick from right?

No god who loses an eye and can't just grow another one isn't omnipotent. (Jesus had the same limitation - rose from the dead but failed to cure his wounds.)

Fair enough, but MY claim was that Odin is pretty bad ass. The OP is the one who likes omniwords

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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10-04-2017, 11:16 AM
RE: Is God Omnipotent
(09-04-2017 07:18 PM)Shirina Wrote:  1) Why would God need to "come down" to see the city? It's stupid in the extreme to suggest that an omnipotent (and by default, omniscient) being couldn't see the city just fine from wherever the hell he was no matter where that might be. He should have been able to sit on a lawn chair on a beach on the other side of the space-time continuum and still see the city as if he were actually standing there.
And so the rejoinder to that would be, of course, and that's what he did, but the bronze-age author just characterized it as that he "came down to see it" because he had no other conceptual framework to describe it.

I once saw an artist give a "chalk talk" or illustrated sermon in which there was some fevered imagery from The Revelation that described hornets with beards or some such, and she just figured those were contrails from fighter jets -- the author was describing (this was the 1980s) 20th century warfare as best they could.

None of this fazes them, even in those rare instances that it occurs to them to wonder about it. There's a rationalization for everything.
(09-04-2017 07:18 PM)Shirina Wrote:  2) If God is truly omnipotent, why is he so worried about the potential of humanity? Our single language gives us unlimited potential? Didn't the stupid sod create us that way in the first place -- and didn't his supposed omniscience allow him to see this outcome? Or is God following someone else's script? Perhaps his actions are preordained so he must allow things to happen even though, if he could, he would change those events. Which, of course, would make him non-omnipotent.
Putting on my rusty fundy hat, I'd say, god gave us the gift of unified language and then we shat all over it, so he took it away. And that is our fault, not his.
(09-04-2017 07:18 PM)Shirina Wrote:  What truly boggles me, as well, is that we're talking about a Bronze Age society here. I mean, we're talking about extremely primitive stuff going on and yet this Almighty God feels threatened by ... Bronze Age technology, Bronze Age knowledge, and Bronze Age architecture. Seriously, wow -- these guys want to build a tower made out of brick and tar and God goes apeshit because humanity is getting too powerful. Now we build towers that rise a quarter-mile into the air, towers made of glass, steel, and composite materials those ancients would have perceived as being impossible. Funny how God doesn't seem to give a shit now. Only then.
Yes in this account, god's hand-wringing anxiety and surprise are almost palpable.
(09-04-2017 07:18 PM)Shirina Wrote:  Now that no one can understand each other, it means Christianity can't spread.
Well, they just run with it. That's the whole purpose behind Wycliffe Bible Translators, to make sure at least the gospels are translated into every native tongue on earth. Even if they have to invent writing for a particular tribe that hasn't bothered to do so. They actually believe that once they have finished this sacred task, the second coming will be ushered in.

So god delayed humanity's spiritual enlightenment, created a bunch of needless make-work for his 20th and 21st century followers to belatedly "fix" the problem, and that's supposed to be a Good Thing.

Of course, too bad for the billions who died before then without the glorious light of the Good News [sigh].
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10-04-2017, 01:49 PM
RE: Is God Omnipotent
(09-04-2017 11:52 AM)socialistview Wrote:  As a christian i study the bible and believe he is...

My condolences to your family and friends. Cool

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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10-04-2017, 01:55 PM
RE: Is God Omnipotent
There is no reply to a belief, only to an argument presented for discussion. That's why it's disingenuous to present your opinion with "I feel..." or "I believe..." If you want to discuss what you think, then we can do that. Of course, if you imagine your original post to say,
"As a christian i study the bible and think he is."
then that is not a strong thesis statement but at least it is a forthright invitation to a discussion (the first reply of which would probably be, "What leads you to think so?" to which you would reply with some analysis, &c.)

Our reply to your belief can only be silence, since belief is each individual's metaphorical and symbolic expression of understanding of things that are not otherwise provable.
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10-04-2017, 02:05 PM
RE: Is God Omnipotent
(10-04-2017 01:55 PM)kmc Wrote:  There is no reply to a belief, only to an argument presented for discussion. That's why it's disingenuous to present your opinion with "I feel..." or "I believe..." If you want to discuss what you think, then we can do that. Of course, if you imagine your original post to say,
"As a christian i study the bible and think he is."
then that is not a strong thesis statement but at least it is a forthright invitation to a discussion (the first reply of which would probably be, "What leads you to think so?" to which you would reply with some analysis, &c.)

Our reply to your belief can only be silence, since belief is each individual's metaphorical and symbolic expression of understanding of things that are not otherwise provable.

I don't know... I kinda like replying to un-provable nonsensical belief statements with mockery. I mean if the belief statement is outlandish enough, which the OP's is.

But I like how you worded that, I think you make a strong case there. Welcome to the forums btw

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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11-04-2017, 12:08 PM
RE: Is God Omnipotent
(09-04-2017 11:52 AM)socialistview Wrote:  As a christian i study the bible and believe he is. Any replies?

I'm sorry you're so gullible?
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11-04-2017, 12:43 PM
RE: Is God Omnipotent
Whether a believer's god is omniscient or not isn't actually the point the believer cares about. What the believer needs his god to be is as powerful as needed to do whatever the believer thinks the god should be doing for the believer. No believer wants any limit placed on what his god can do for him. Calling that god omniscient is just lazy thinking, putting an erroneous connotation on the real but less overreaching concern of just being powerful enough to do anything the believer wants.

It's like saying your hydraulic system generates infinite pressure when all you're actually trying to get across is that your hydraulic system will never have insufficient force to drive whatever actuators you hook it up to. Infinite pressure is nonsensical, but is what a lazy mind would say about the system.

It turns out, interestingly enough, that no god ever imagined is even powerful enough to do everything its believers want, let alone be "infinitely" powerful. Every god concocted needs guidance from its believers about what to do, needs to be told what needs to be done, and takes this guidance in the form of prayers. Nothing powerful enough to do everything necessary would need guidance from people less powerful and less knowledgeable than it is.

Ergo the gods of every believer are weak to the point of uselessness.
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12-04-2017, 05:12 PM
RE: Is God Omnipotent
(09-04-2017 11:52 AM)socialistview Wrote:  As a christian i study the bible and believe he is. Any replies?

I would have to ask whether you believe the 'God' described in the Bible is also omniscient. If the answer to that is "yes", then the answer to your posted question is "no". Omnipotence and omniscience are, logically, mutually exclusive.

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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13-04-2017, 02:05 AM
RE: Is God Omnipotent
Yes God is omnipotent, as the universe is infinite.
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13-04-2017, 02:27 AM
RE: Is God Omnipotent
(13-04-2017 02:05 AM)slipknot0129 Wrote:  Yes God is omnipotent, as the universe is infinite.

Did you know that SLIPKNOT is an anagram of PLONKIST?




That's kinda like a Plonker, but worse.

Drinking Beverage

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