Is God a moral monster?
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07-05-2014, 10:13 AM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(07-05-2014 09:54 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 09:51 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Fuck you, we have empathy; that's why we oppose rape you fucking cunt. Dodgy

In your world, there is nothing that makes having empathy a moral obligation. In your world it is just something some people choose to have.

You don't choose to have empathy, you either have it or you do not; it is a part of our physiology. It is possible to either repress it (military training does their best to accomplish this, but religious indoctrination works too) or to un-repress it (Edward Norton's character in 'American History X' who emerges from prison as a reformed skinhead). People who are born without it are psychopaths.

I'm left uncertain of whether you lost you empathy, or if you ever had it to begin with.

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07-05-2014, 10:13 AM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(06-05-2014 09:26 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  In fact, I cannot think of one reason why a woman chosen to be taken out of captivity and given essentially a fresh start with a new lease on life would not literally jump at the chance.

There's so much to address here, I'm going to go through it bit by bit.

I'll start with the idea that the Israelites were ordered by your god to take women into captivity. And since your god commanded it, well, it must be moral. Is that your take on it?
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07-05-2014, 10:16 AM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(06-05-2014 08:38 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 08:16 PM)Dom Wrote:  Why didn't he just create man the way he wanted them to be in the first place?

God wanted to create something special when He made us. More special than the birds of the air, the beasts of the field, and creepy things that creep on the ground.

More special even than the angels.

He wanted to create us in His Image.

But being made in His Image entailed that we be able to experience what He experiences. To know what He knows. To think like He thinks. To a degree of course.

This entailed creating us with something called a volition or will. The ability to choose.

We presently are not what we can be or what we will become.

God knew of all the evil that would happen before He made us. But He determined that it was worth it because He is greater than our evil choices and mistakes and failures and weaknesses. He is God.

He created us knowing that we would rebel for the same reason a mother and father come together and have a child knowing that that child will experience evil and suffering in this life. They do it in love and hope, knowing that the momentary sufferings and evil their child will experience will be far outweighed by the love and joy this child will have of being loved and being able to love.




WE ARE NOT GOING TO PLAY ALONG WITH YOUR PRETENSE THAT YOUR FAIRY TALE MONSTER ACTUALLY EXISTS WITHOUT YOU ACTUALLY PROVING THAT IT ACTUALLY EXISTS. YOU DON'T GET TO BYPASS YOUR BURDEN OF PROOF.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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07-05-2014, 10:21 AM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(07-05-2014 10:16 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  WE ARE NOT GOING TO PLAY ALONG WITH YOUR PRETENSE THAT YOUR FAIRY TALE MONSTER ACTUALLY EXISTS WITHOUT YOU ACTUALLY PROVING THAT IT ACTUALLY EXISTS. YOU DON'T GET TO BYPASS YOUR BURDEN OF PROOF.

You think he gives a fuck?

(22-04-2014 12:09 PM)Simon Moon Wrote:  Sounds to me like you are shifting the burden of proof.

The logical and reasonable method to follow is to disbelieve claims, such as a resurrection,until they meet their burden of proof. Not to believe them until they are proven false.

This leads to belief in all sorts of, possibly contradictory, claims until they proven falsie, which I am sure you don't do. You probably only reserve belief until proven false for your Christian beliefs.

(22-04-2014 01:08 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I do not agree. Why disbelieve the claim as default. Why not believe it until it is proven false?

...

(22-04-2014 01:08 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I do not agree. Why disbelieve the claim as default. Why not believe it until it is proven false?

(22-04-2014 01:08 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Why disbelieve the claim as default. Why not believe it until it is proven false?

(22-04-2014 01:08 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Why disbelieve the claim as default. Why not believe it until it is proven false?

9/10 would troll again

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07-05-2014, 10:25 AM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(07-05-2014 08:42 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 08:38 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  He created us knowing that we would rebel for the same reason a mother and father come together and have a child knowing that that child will experience evil and suffering in this life. They do it in love and hope, knowing that the momentary sufferings and evil their child will experience will be far outweighed by the love and joy this child will have of being loved and being able to love.

Unless mom and dad decide the kid is evil and murder it and it's offspring and friends?

Why would any benevolent being create something just to heap suffering and death and death of it's children on it?

If that isn't immoral, I don't know what is.

Religion has nothing to do with morals and empathy.

Empathy is a trait common to all humans, designed to support the preservation of the species. Morals are man made constructs based on empathy and enforced by the law.

Your god has no empathy, nor does he have a moral ground to stand on. He seems to take a delight in pitching one part of his creation against other parts of his creation. It's like someone playing a gruesome video game.

If you really worship such a god, something is seriously wrong with you. People without inborn empathy are called psychopaths.

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07-05-2014, 10:25 AM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(06-05-2014 09:26 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 08:37 PM)Charis Wrote:  ^^Excellent post. You just articulated everything i wanted to but couldn't, due to my shaking and the whooshing sound in my ears.

Waiting. Jeremy?

His whole argument stands or falls on whether or not the sex is consensual. And to be charitable, I can agree.

If it was unconsensual, it would be rape.

But what does the passage say? I already gave my commentary on it and Reltzik gives us no reason at all to think the sex is unconsensual, he just states that it is lol!!!

When reading this passage in light of the other passages where God condemns rape and ascribes for it the penalty of death, one has only a wild leap of the imagination to get him to the point where he can say this passage condones rape!

In fact the whole bit about her being stripped naked and hung from the rafter is pure fiction. Its not in the bible at all.

In fact, I cannot think of one reason why a woman chosen to be taken out of captivity and given essentially a fresh start with a new lease on life would not literally jump at the chance.

Reltzik would have you believe these would be women crying and wailing and kicking and screaming as the soldiers came to them with the news that they were no longer war captives.... : /

That they would be horrified at the prospect of being given new clothes in exchange for the filthy ones they were wearing, probably soiled from having been worn, a house to live in instead of a cell, the hope of marriage in exchange for their chains...

They would have been kicking and screaming no doubt, but not for the reasons Reltzik thinks. They would have been kicking and screaming to get the attention of the men whenever they could so they could display themselves in the hopes of being seen as beautiful, something that not a few women do today without their freedom at stake!!!!!


So you see Charis, there is no reason whatsoever to think this sex was not consensual.

Yes, because it is simply human nature to want to have sex with someone who slaughtered your family and your people and took you as a fucking slave.

You are fucking disgusting. The next idiot theotard who wades in here claiming we have no morality is going to get his face stuffed in this shitpile of a thread. with you as the prime example of the intrinsic moral bankruptcy of your religion.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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07-05-2014, 10:28 AM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(06-05-2014 09:30 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 09:23 PM)Chas Wrote:  And that alone makes him monstrous. QED

Of course the woman must decide she wants to marry the man. That goes without saying.


NO, it does NOT "go without saying". You are a fucking LIAR.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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07-05-2014, 10:31 AM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(06-05-2014 10:03 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Jeremy, please "properly interpret," or "put into context" the following verses for us...and when you've finished I've got some more...

Yahweh thought some infants and children deserved death:
“All those who are found will be stabbed, all those captured will fall by the sword, their babies dashed to pieces before their eyes, their houses plundered, their wives raped. Look, against them I am stirring up the Medes who care nothing for silver, who set no value by gold. Bows will annihilate the young men, they will have no pity for the fruit of the womb, or mercy in their eyes for children” (Isa. 13:15–18, NJB.)

THEIR WIVES RAPED.

THEIR WIVES RAPED.

THEIR WIVES RAPED.

THEIR WIVES RAPED.

THEIR WIVES RAPED.

THEIR WIVES RAPED.


Drinking Beverage

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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07-05-2014, 10:32 AM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
I'm closing this thread for an hour to give everyone a chance to cool down. Please try to keep the discussion civil.

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07-05-2014, 11:33 AM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
This thread has been re-opened.

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