Is God a moral monster?
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07-05-2014, 01:46 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(06-05-2014 08:29 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 08:27 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  How the fuck can you justify rape?

I don't.

I despise it as one of the most horrendous evils a human being can commit against a human being.

In the OT, men were sentenced to death for it.

Today, our society, in my opinion, is too lenient on those who commit such vile acts.

Except the part where it says he must marry her. But in apologetics the word death means fairy fruits that give you magical fairy powers.

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
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07-05-2014, 02:49 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(07-05-2014 12:26 PM)Charis Wrote:  I forgave way too early. This is an unfortunate result of the conditioning I got as a fundy. After all, if I don't forgive, I don't get forgiven, AND I can't take communion... which was pretty handy for the ex, since he just chose communion time to confess his sins to me, freeing him to partake in communion with everyone else, and forcing me to forgive unless I wanted to be excluded. Someone as isolated as me could not bear to be excluded even more from the only people I really knew.

Even while being a fundy, I had issues with these parts of the Bible. I often got reprimanded by my husband for blasphemy when I would say things like,"It's not the parts of the Bible I DON'T understand that make me feel like God is like Allah... it's the parts I DO understand." I was indoctrinated, and I was warped. Sooo warped. I still am, though I'm improving. But I recognized, even then, that something was just wrong.

You see, most decent Christians will feel uncomfortable with these rapey parts. They'll cling to the "God is love," belief and try to get around those parts. They'll feel shifty, and not really know what to do about them, or say that "that's the Old Testament" and then cling desperately to the New Testament in the hopes that there's a better decency to be found there. There's major cognitive discord with the decent folks... they just don't know what to do with the bad stuff, and they really truly hold to the good stuff, or they try to.

The indecent Christians? The ones like my ex? Ohhhh, they DEFEND IT! God wrote it and demanded/condoned it, so they're free to EMBRACE it as true, right, just and holy! "These people groups were evil, so everything that was done to these infants and virgins was righteous and just judgement from a righteous, just and LOVING God." "Oh, the captive women WANTED this!" "Yes, of course a month is ample time for grieving. That's long enough. Now get on with it." "Justified." "Righteous." "Right." Fuck you. Prick. There is no civility in this. There is no decency in this.

Edited for details.

Are you angry at me for breaking or violating some code of conduct or law of decency, that obligates me to be empathetic that you think I should be aware of and held accountable to?
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07-05-2014, 02:53 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
You are seriously lacking in empathy.

When I grew up, being christian was supposed to mean being empathetic, feeling with and for people, helping and being kind.

If you approve of the stuff on the OT, you are definitely not that kind of christian.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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07-05-2014, 02:58 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
The thing is, whilst there are people on here who seem quick to sling insults (I am firmly in that camp) the implication that we need to cool off or calm down is a tiny bit absurd.

I call Jeremy a cunt because he's a cunt. ... Now instead of that, to avoid the naughty chair and to not interupt the flow of valuable discourse I have to say things like this ...

Dear Jeremy,

As an educated and hopefully insightful man, I feel I must explain to you why I have selected to avoid discourse with you in your chosen format.

Myself and many of my peers, I refer here to other esteemed members of the forum, have a wide berth of life experience, a common thread we share, is the rejection of supernatural beliefs. With this in mind, we have often engaged in discussions and arguments with people who hold opposing views. This insight, has given many of us the debating tools and social understanding to see the difference between a sincere individual who wishes to engage in a mutually enlightening conversation and a charlatan who wishes to employ red herrings, logical fallacies or any other manner of underhanded sophistry for that matter.

It is my experience and if I may be bold enough, the experience of many of my respected peers, that these argument tactics are easy to spot and are usually an indicator of a hidden agenda. They also strongly imply that you may have never ever, ever intended engage with us in a charming dialogue.

If I take in to account, the aforementioned nature of your posts, perhaps I could offer a more apt description of your behaviour. The more youthful, technologically savvy members of our little community refer to this as trolling. This is why many of the members are in disagreement with a 'time out'. You see, this is our house, you are not allowed to defecate on the carpet and write on the walls with your own feces. We will address it.

Due to the new eloquent and civil direction the forum is heading in, I offer you an unabashed, wholehearted apology for making clown references and even more so for calling you a cunt in the past. Instead, I will keep my criticism of you civilised. Allow me to list my observations of your good character and fine standing:-

Religious
Apologist
Pedantic
Ignorant
Sadistic
Terse

Confrontational
Unpleasant
Narcissistic
Tinker

I hope my apology is accepted Jeremy. Oh and also, before I forget, please give a little bit of attention to the enlightenment in the 18th century, secular society has been in the business of leading the religious towards the light of morality for some time. You may be right about rape not being morally wrong in an absolute sense. I agree with you. I can rape or kill as much as I like. So far, at 38 I have raped and killed as many people as I have wanted to. The amount of people I have desired to rape and kill is 0. Therefore, thus far my subjective morality has served me better than many religious people.

Kind regards,
Monster_Riffs

Admins, that took fucking ages to type on my phone, please let me know as and when the dictatorship ends and I can go back to calling Jeremy a cunt Drinking Beverage

I'll just play the 'can I help you' lick!!!
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07-05-2014, 03:00 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
Yeah, but he is not a cunt, he is a prick.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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07-05-2014, 03:02 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(07-05-2014 02:53 PM)Dom Wrote:  You are seriously lacking in empathy.

When I grew up, being christian was supposed to mean being empathetic, feeling with and for people, helping and being kind.

If you approve of the stuff on the OT, you are definitely not that kind of christian.

What makes a person obligated to be empathetic?
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07-05-2014, 03:03 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(07-05-2014 03:02 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 02:53 PM)Dom Wrote:  You are seriously lacking in empathy.

When I grew up, being christian was supposed to mean being empathetic, feeling with and for people, helping and being kind.

If you approve of the stuff on the OT, you are definitely not that kind of christian.

What makes a person obligated to be empathetic?

You are not obligated, it's innate.

People who are born without it are called psychopaths.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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07-05-2014, 03:03 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(07-05-2014 02:49 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(07-05-2014 12:26 PM)Charis Wrote:  I forgave way too early. This is an unfortunate result of the conditioning I got as a fundy. After all, if I don't forgive, I don't get forgiven, AND I can't take communion... which was pretty handy for the ex, since he just chose communion time to confess his sins to me, freeing him to partake in communion with everyone else, and forcing me to forgive unless I wanted to be excluded. Someone as isolated as me could not bear to be excluded even more from the only people I really knew.

Even while being a fundy, I had issues with these parts of the Bible. I often got reprimanded by my husband for blasphemy when I would say things like,"It's not the parts of the Bible I DON'T understand that make me feel like God is like Allah... it's the parts I DO understand." I was indoctrinated, and I was warped. Sooo warped. I still am, though I'm improving. But I recognized, even then, that something was just wrong.

You see, most decent Christians will feel uncomfortable with these rapey parts. They'll cling to the "God is love," belief and try to get around those parts. They'll feel shifty, and not really know what to do about them, or say that "that's the Old Testament" and then cling desperately to the New Testament in the hopes that there's a better decency to be found there. There's major cognitive discord with the decent folks... they just don't know what to do with the bad stuff, and they really truly hold to the good stuff, or they try to.

The indecent Christians? The ones like my ex? Ohhhh, they DEFEND IT! God wrote it and demanded/condoned it, so they're free to EMBRACE it as true, right, just and holy! "These people groups were evil, so everything that was done to these infants and virgins was righteous and just judgement from a righteous, just and LOVING God." "Oh, the captive women WANTED this!" "Yes, of course a month is ample time for grieving. That's long enough. Now get on with it." "Justified." "Righteous." "Right." Fuck you. Prick. There is no civility in this. There is no decency in this.

Edited for details.

Are you angry at me for breaking or violating some code of conduct or law of decency, that obligates me to be empathetic that you think I should be aware of and held accountable to?

"OBLIGATES ME TO BE EMPATHETIC" - WTFFFF? Empathy for the humans of this planet is expected from us sane folks, especially towards the innocent and victimized. I will say it again - friggin empty shell of and idiot!

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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07-05-2014, 03:05 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(07-05-2014 03:00 PM)Dom Wrote:  Yeah, but he is not a cunt, he is a prick.

When there are 17 pages of mostly insults thrown your way its hard to present the better side of yourself or your argument. I don't think jeremy is a bad guy. He is trying to justify the bible, which is hard, and make you bend yourself in uncomfortable ways in order to do it.

I appreciate that people have the freedom to say almost anything they want. It doesn't always make for the most fair and enlightening discussions though.

Also, I wouldn't contend that the point of this forum is to help theist come to athiesm, but I would point out that this would be practical impossible for that to happen here given the climate of debate in these forums. This is not a welcoming place for people with different ideas than the majority.
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07-05-2014, 03:07 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(07-05-2014 03:00 PM)Dom Wrote:  Yeah, but he is not a cunt, he is a prick.

I assume you're American Dom? Prick, over here is a really mild swear word! Big Grin

I'll just play the 'can I help you' lick!!!
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