Is God a moral monster?
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06-05-2014, 07:55 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(06-05-2014 07:50 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 07:42 PM)Charis Wrote:  Are you saying that non-consensual sex is suitable? If so, how?

If not, then please show us where it is assumed that the woman has the authority to say "No" and to have it respected. I'm not seeing where she is given the right. I am seeing where the man may have sex with her. I am not seeing where she may refuse and be obeyed.

The sex in question is not non consensual, but consensual.

Does the Bible tell a man that if a wife says "no" he must obey? And does this "saying no" come without any strings attached? Meaning, is it at all understood that she SHOULD actually be saying "yes" in order to be in obedience to God? Does God, in any way, mandate a "yes" or allow for a man to take his wife against her will?

A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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06-05-2014, 07:56 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(06-05-2014 07:28 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I have addressed this to certain people here. None of which have replied yet.

So until they do, I will keep my posting in this thread to a minimum.

This thread is not an argument for God's existence.

It is directed to those who think the Bible contains commands to rape people.

Fair enough. How about Numbers 31.

Quote:31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

What, do you suppose, they kept those lovely little virgins for? To do their laundry?

On what do you base your opinion that these people were evil and deserved to be destroyed? On the book written by the people that conquered them? What did you think they would write - oh, we just slaughtered this group of lovely people, killed all their men and women; except for the virgins - who we kept for ourselves.

The comparison to Nazi Germany is ridiculous and repulsive. But, then again, you're defending your deity's commandment for mass slaughter and condoning, if not commanding, creating sex slaves out of young girls, so you obviously don't have a problem with repulsiveness.
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06-05-2014, 07:56 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(06-05-2014 07:52 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 07:49 PM)cjlr Wrote:  "It's not wrong if they deserve it. In fact, they should be grateful".

Son, you are just going full criminal watch list tonight.

I fear for any woman you're ever involved with.

That is great, but you are being naive as to how the world works in your attempt to paint me as some type of immoral person.

Women will sell themselves nowadays for a pair of shoes.

Citation needed.

(06-05-2014 07:52 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  How much more would one who had been taken captive from such a society as the ones in question.

That's not even a sentence. But okay.

Protip: coerced is not consenting.

... this is my signature!
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06-05-2014, 07:58 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
It says that raping an unmarried Israelite woman gets death. What about a married one?

A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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06-05-2014, 08:03 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
So far, just fuck you, okay? If this "god" of yours exists in the form shown in this thread, with all the little semantics games you've played, he can throw himself into his own lake of fire and fuck himself too. With Taq's cactus.

This is unbelievable. Yes, I am morally superior to a being such as this. To say so isn't arrogant, but to NOT be morally superior to this is to be a dangerous person. I've modified my rating for you, linking to this thread. This is a disgrace. My husband used similar wording to yours and was backed up by our pastor. Got me raped. Fuck you all who in ANY way excuse this for ANY reason. Get your head out of your ass, darling. Get off this forum. You're a disgrace to humanity if you think rape is okay. I'm having nothing more to do with you. Right now, I hate your guts. Just go.

A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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06-05-2014, 08:06 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(06-05-2014 07:55 PM)Charis Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 07:50 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  The sex in question is not non consensual, but consensual.

Does the Bible tell a man that if a wife says "no" he must obey? And does this "saying no" come without any strings attached? Meaning, is it at all understood that she SHOULD actually be saying "yes" in order to be in obedience to God? Does God, in any way, mandate a "yes" or allow for a man to take his wife against her will?

1 Corinthians 7:

Because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

The above was written by the apostle Paul to the Christians in Corinth. It addresses the issue you raised.

Proverbs 5 is beautiful:

Drink water from your own cistern, flowing water from your own well. Should your springs be scattered abroad, streams of water in the streets? Let them be for yourself alone, and not for strangers with you. Let your fountain be blessed, and rejoice in the wife of your youth, a lovely deer, a graceful doe. Let her breasts fill you at all times with delight; be intoxicated always in her love.
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06-05-2014, 08:08 PM (This post was last modified: 06-05-2014 08:12 PM by Charis.)
RE: Is God a moral monster?
Yeah. That corinthians passage? That's disgusting.

You better damn well believe I have authority over my body! If I say no, that means fucking no, asshole!
And likewise, if HE says no, that's NO! GTFO.

A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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06-05-2014, 08:11 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(06-05-2014 07:58 PM)Charis Wrote:  It says that raping an unmarried Israelite woman gets death. What about a married one?

Any act of rape, whether the victim be married or not, is considered a crime worthy of death for it is likened to murder. See Deuterononmy 22:26.
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06-05-2014, 08:13 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(06-05-2014 08:03 PM)Charis Wrote:  So far, just fuck you, okay? If this "god" of yours exists in the form shown in this thread, with all the little semantics games you've played, he can throw himself into his own lake of fire and fuck himself too. With Taq's cactus.

This is unbelievable. Yes, I am morally superior to a being such as this. To say so isn't arrogant, but to NOT be morally superior to this is to be a dangerous person. I've modified my rating for you, linking to this thread. This is a disgrace. My husband used similar wording to yours and was backed up by our pastor. Got me raped. Fuck you all who in ANY way excuse this for ANY reason. Get your head out of your ass, darling. Get off this forum. You're a disgrace to humanity if you think rape is okay. I'm having nothing more to do with you. Right now, I hate your guts. Just go.

If you were raped and the person used the Bible to defend it, then they are wrong on both accounts. For rape is wrong and using the Bible to defend it is wrong. Whether the person were a pastor, or the pope, it was still wrong. And I am sorry you were hurt. Sad

All you had to say was no, and if you did, and he did not listen, then it is rape. Married or not.

Marital rape, also known as spousal rape, is non-consensual sex in which the perpetrator is the victim's spouse. It is a form of partner rape, of domestic violence, and of sexual abuse. It can be equally, or even more, emotionally and physically damaging than rape by a stranger. -Wikipedia
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06-05-2014, 08:14 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(06-05-2014 07:37 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I suggest you brush up on the history of these societies and cultures that were marked out for destruction by God. As I stated, they would make the Nazis look like The Waltons.

You mean like reading the bible about the society and culture of the Israelites who make the Nazis look like the Waltons?

Your apologetics are based on a flimsy desire to make the god of the bible look righteous and loving. You're fighting against the bible here. You are swimming against the stream of shit that is the very source for your "hippie version" of the bible that christians today want to pretend is what they follow. It just doesn't wash, friend.

You get to believe what you want to believe. You are not going to be able to justify it, though. You have failed on your first attempt. Give it up.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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