Is God a moral monster?
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06-05-2014, 09:19 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(06-05-2014 07:28 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I have addressed this to certain people here. None of which have replied yet.

So until they do, I will keep my posting in this thread to a minimum.

This thread is not an argument for God's existence.

It is directed to those who think the Bible contains commands to rape people.

No, the Bible shows god condoning rape and commanding the Israelites to kill every living thing, or every man and woman except the ones who have not known a man, and so on.

Your casuistry marks you as not only delusional, bet demented and morally cretinous.

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06-05-2014, 09:22 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(06-05-2014 07:37 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 07:32 PM)Dom Wrote:  He kills the woman's parents, she is allowed to grieve for one month, and after that she will love to let the killer of her parents having sex with her anytime he pleases? And if he doesn't like her anymore he is to let her go - right into the arms of other men, she has no place to go, her home is gone, her parents and everyone dead... and THAT is being kind?

If you think that is nice, you are a savage, just like your god who is responsible for her parents being murdered in the first place.

Well Dom that is quite interesting.

In your mind these woman were innocent and lived in a town full of innocent people who were model citizens.

I suggest you brush up on the history of these societies and cultures that were marked out for destruction by God. As I stated, they would make the Nazis look like The Waltons.

Provide actual scientific or historical evidence that these societies were as you describe.

And even if they were, that does not give free passage to slaughter them or rape their women and girls.

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06-05-2014, 09:23 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(06-05-2014 07:39 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 07:37 PM)cjlr Wrote:  So that's "condone" pretty explicitly spelled out.


I dunno, something about a timeless and objective lawgiver would lead me to expect commands which satisfied those requirements. Do you know what objective means? It means not contingent on time and place.

Whataboutism - especially made up whataboutism, seeing how contemporaneous e.g. Egyptians, Persians, Celts, treated women - is a pretty special little bit of cognitively dissonant post-hoc justification.

Yeah. "It's not wrong if she deserved it". Gee, what a fascinating new take on things. Shine on, you repulsive diamond.

God condones a man marrying a woman if a man decides to marry her. Yes He does condone this.

And that alone makes him monstrous. QED

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06-05-2014, 09:25 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(06-05-2014 07:43 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 07:39 PM)cjlr Wrote:  "It's not wrong if they deserve it".

Facepalm

Come the fuck on. That's all you've got?

Not all, no.

But nothing more is needed. For you would think me deserving of punishment if I took your child and offered it as a sacrifice on a red hot spike in the name of little golden statue i have sitting on my mantle.

I find people like you amusing. You seem to want me to believe your sensibilities are offended when you hear of God punishing people for evil they commit, but you will not hesitate in declaring that the "religious" should be punished for the supposed crimes and evil they have committed against unbelievers. Laughat

Who here has said anything like that? Quote it or shut the fuck up.

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06-05-2014, 09:26 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(06-05-2014 08:37 PM)Charis Wrote:  ^^Excellent post. You just articulated everything i wanted to but couldn't, due to my shaking and the whooshing sound in my ears.

Waiting. Jeremy?

His whole argument stands or falls on whether or not the sex is consensual. And to be charitable, I can agree.

If it was unconsensual, it would be rape.

But what does the passage say? I already gave my commentary on it and Reltzik gives us no reason at all to think the sex is unconsensual, he just states that it is lol!!!

When reading this passage in light of the other passages where God condemns rape and ascribes for it the penalty of death, one has only a wild leap of the imagination to get him to the point where he can say this passage condones rape!

In fact the whole bit about her being stripped naked and hung from the rafter is pure fiction. Its not in the bible at all.

In fact, I cannot think of one reason why a woman chosen to be taken out of captivity and given essentially a fresh start with a new lease on life would not literally jump at the chance.

Reltzik would have you believe these would be women crying and wailing and kicking and screaming as the soldiers came to them with the news that they were no longer war captives.... : /

That they would be horrified at the prospect of being given new clothes in exchange for the filthy ones they were wearing, probably soiled from having been worn, a house to live in instead of a cell, the hope of marriage in exchange for their chains...

They would have been kicking and screaming no doubt, but not for the reasons Reltzik thinks. They would have been kicking and screaming to get the attention of the men whenever they could so they could display themselves in the hopes of being seen as beautiful, something that not a few women do today without their freedom at stake!!!!!


So you see Charis, there is no reason whatsoever to think this sex was not consensual.
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06-05-2014, 09:27 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(06-05-2014 07:48 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 07:41 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Indeed. The woman has no choice.

Once "married" (an interesting use of the word), the man has the explicit right to her body.

Funny thing, that. Today we call it rape.

The woman did have a choice. She could have chosen to remain a captive. This passage does not speak at all about the choice because the passage is not about that.

Remember here now, she is a captive, not a free citizen.

And that is not a free choice. The Israelites had no right to take her captive, you moral midget.

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06-05-2014, 09:28 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(06-05-2014 07:50 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 07:42 PM)Charis Wrote:  Are you saying that non-consensual sex is suitable? If so, how?

If not, then please show us where it is assumed that the woman has the authority to say "No" and to have it respected. I'm not seeing where she is given the right. I am seeing where the man may have sex with her. I am not seeing where she may refuse and be obeyed.

The sex in question is not non consensual, but consensual.

No, it is not. It is coerced.

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06-05-2014, 09:30 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(06-05-2014 09:23 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 07:39 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  God condones a man marrying a woman if a man decides to marry her. Yes He does condone this.

And that alone makes him monstrous. QED

Of course the woman must decide she wants to marry the man. That goes without saying. That is why i did not bother to say it. Chas you never cease to amaze me.
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06-05-2014, 09:31 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(06-05-2014 09:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 07:48 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  The woman did have a choice. She could have chosen to remain a captive. This passage does not speak at all about the choice because the passage is not about that.

Remember here now, she is a captive, not a free citizen.

And that is not a free choice. The Israelites had no right to take her captive, you moral midget.

Had to laugh at that one....hah!
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06-05-2014, 09:35 PM
RE: Is God a moral monster?
(06-05-2014 09:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 07:28 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I have addressed this to certain people here. None of which have replied yet.

So until they do, I will keep my posting in this thread to a minimum.

This thread is not an argument for God's existence.

It is directed to those who think the Bible contains commands to rape people.

No, the Bible shows god condoning rape and commanding the Israelites to kill every living thing, or every man and woman except the ones who have not known a man, and so on.

Your casuistry marks you as not only delusional, bet demented and morally cretinous.

You're on a roll and batting a thousand!!!

Morally cretinous is just too good! If I were there with you I would pat you on the back for that one.
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