Is Hedonism selfish?
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25-09-2016, 11:10 PM
RE: Is Hedonism selfish?
(25-09-2016 07:11 PM)edblanrey Wrote:  'Seeking pleasure' as a life philosophy is almost laughable - neurologically 'pleasure' is just a dose of seratonin and dopamine.

Neurologically everything that happens in the brain is the result of chemicals.

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26-09-2016, 02:50 AM
RE: Is Hedonism selfish?
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26-09-2016, 05:41 AM
RE: Is Hedonism selfish?
There's a thought ---

An altruistic hedonist.............

Somebody who parties til someone else pukes...............

...

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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26-09-2016, 06:56 AM
RE: Is Hedonism selfish?
(25-09-2016 07:11 PM)edblanrey Wrote:  
(13-02-2011 02:06 PM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  Hedonism is about bringing yourselves over others? I thought that part of Hedonism had to do with the fact that making others unhappy makes you unhappy. Hedonism is viewed as a sin because of the fact that taking all you can is often times a bad idea. Except that those same religions and most countries follow the idea of mine perfectly well on their own.

I choose not to belong to a school of thought but in my actions lead towards Utilitarianism (often enough due to the importance of non human life). I strive to be happy myself and generally will put others before me in order for there to be more happiness.

The discussion of selfishness though is a difficult discussion when you can prove how selfish being selfless is. Since everyone is in truth themselves, working for others often means interfering in their lives. And, you always have an alterior motive even though you don't see it. I still prefer that the world is not about me, and that I'm not the one stepping on other's back to get my way in life. But I damn well come to express my opinions and be noticed.

This is utter bigotry, and narrow mindedness. You have no understanding even what Spirituality or Religion even is. I'll bet you've never even been into a Church.

'Religions' want you to be a *good person* and to be *conscientious citizen* - and given human beings dramatic inability to control their lower impulses (lust etc.), they submit to addictions (alcoholism, drug abuse, gambling) - in pursuit of 'pleasure'.

It's 100% false to say that religions don't want you to seek pleasure, but they want you to be responsible first.

'Seeking pleasure' can mean sleeping with someone else's wife, doing nothing all day, avoiding raising your children well or paying child support, and otherwise making short-term decisions with 'not so good outcomes'.

'Seeking pleasure' as a life philosophy is almost laughable - neurologically 'pleasure' is just a dose of seratonin and dopamine. All 'pleasurable' activities produce the same thing: sex, gambling (for some), drugs (at least opiods and alcohol).

By putting the 'higher' forms of existence (spiritual, cognitive) 'in charge' of the lower, animal impulses (impulses such as 'lust', 'hunger', 'greed', and emotional impulses such as 'jealously') - we live prosperous, healthy and conscientious lives.

You want to see 'hedonism' - go to Africa. In most Sub-Saharan African states there hardly such a thing as a family unit, people have new sexual partners every week, mothers have 10 children by 10 different men, there is massive corruption, and total social dysfunction.

Without a fairly strong 'moral order' - in fact, without Victorian era and even puritanical principles imbued into Anglo-culture - we would not have the civilization we would have.

If you want to see a Western nation with fairly hedonist values, visit the South of Italy or Sicily. And then consider if that's what we want as a civilization.

Ultimately, hedonism is a 'self centered' and 'self seeking' and bad idea - which is why all religions and spiritual philosophies that have endured - are against it. Those minority who do embrace it, within the context of a majority who embrace selflessness, are effectively leeches on the rest of the group.

What nonsense! I consider myself hedonist since I retired. I live for my own pleasure.

I love interacting with animals, so I rescued some dogs and cats and I often volunteer to walk/train dogs for the local shelter.

I love puttering around growing things, and I am a "tomato snob" and prefer the heirlooms you will never find in stores (skins too thin for transport), so I grow a bunch of varieties every year, indulge myself and give the rest to the local senior center.

I love good food and cooking and indulge daily. I like to smoke weed (legal where I live) and go for walks in the woods. I enjoy masturbating. I like playing games. And yes, I enjoy seeing what all the heathens here have to say.

So, I live pretty much for my own pleasure and happiness now, and I love it. Some of my activities benefit others, none hurt others.

My morals are likely better than those of most religious people and I don't need anyone to threaten me with eternal torture to make me act in ways that do not injure others.

And I've got news for you: Gambling, sex and drugs are fun, and unless the person enjoying them has an "addictive personality", they can be enjoyed and be totally harmless. Engaging in an activity that is bad for you is not hedonistic, it is actually the opposite. But gambling, sex and drugs have been around for a very long time and enjoyed by millions upon millions without hurting others, or we would either have died out or the activities would have disappeared.

There is nothing wrong with the pursuit of happiness. Even the constitution says so.


Quote:Ethical hedonism is the idea that all people have the right to do everything in their power to achieve the greatest amount of pleasure possible to them. It is also the idea that every person's pleasure should far surpass their amount of pain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonism

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30-09-2016, 06:40 AM
RE: Is Hedonism selfish?
Hedonism isn't necessarily selfish.

For example: there are hedonistic utilitarians.

A selfish version of hedonism would be Hedonistic Egoism.

Hedonistic Utilitarianism, for example, is, at least in theory, not selfish.
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30-09-2016, 06:47 AM
RE: Is Hedonism selfish?
(26-09-2016 06:56 AM)Dom Wrote:  
Quote:Ethical hedonism is the idea that all people have the right to do everything in their power to achieve the greatest amount of pleasure possible to them. It is also the idea that every person's pleasure should far surpass their amount of pain.
[...]

^^^ This ^^^ ... is another example.

Nicely done, nicely done.



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30-09-2016, 09:37 AM
RE: Is Hedonism selfish?
(25-09-2016 10:50 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(25-09-2016 07:11 PM)edblanrey Wrote:  ...
This is utter bigotry, and narrow mindedness. You have no understanding
...
Quote:You want to see 'hedonism' - go to Africa. In most Sub-Saharan African states there hardly such a thing as a family unit, people have new sexual partners every week, mothers have 10 children by 10 different men, there is massive corruption, and total social dysfunction.
...

Laugh out load

This is utter irony.

Big Grin

The sweeping bit about multiple sexual partners and fatherless kids is just plain ignorant.

I can't think of a place with less hedonism than Sub-Saharan Africa. Maybe ISIS dominated Syria.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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30-09-2016, 05:13 PM
RE: Is Hedonism selfish?
"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues."
--Abraham Lincoln

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

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05-10-2016, 10:41 AM
RE: Is Hedonism selfish?
Mais, oui. Le vice a le goût dépravé, du libertinage, plaisir, débauche, et perversité. Qu'est-ce que vous n'aimiez pas au sujet du vice ?

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

Alouette, je te plumerai.
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11-10-2016, 06:22 AM
RE: Is Hedonism selfish?
(13-02-2011 11:32 AM)violentpixi Wrote:  quick definition: Hedosim is the philosophy on life that the way to true life enlightenment is to create the most 'Net Happiness,' life happiness - others misfortune.

To any religious person, Hedonism is considered a sin as your life is not yours, but as belonging to god and so persuling self-happiness is immoral. I realised my views were Hedonist a year or so ago, and began persuing different oppotunities and experiences in order to find what made me happiest. Because of my definite Atheist beliefs, I am very aware of my self-mortality and unimportance as a species, which is another reason I am Hedonist.

Some people say that Hedonism is rather selfish, and I want to know whether it is only a religious belief or one that occurs in non-religious also.

Hedonism is the most selfish philosophy because
a) hedonistic imperative is very individual (have you read this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Pear...ilosopher) ?),
b) Hedonism is always striving to become eudemonism because eudemonism is the supreme happiness. And eudemonism is striving to meet its morality.
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