Is Intelligence a Factor?
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08-09-2014, 10:59 AM
RE: Is Intelligence a Factor?
I think that intelligence and rationality level are separate. One can be illogical and a genius at the same time. However, they are likely to correlate.
The other thing to remember is that theists, when at theologian-level, have half a million fallacious arguments and rationalisations for their belief system, which keep doubts at bay.

If somebody points out a fallacy, and you call fallacy fallacy, that doesn't mean you are right. That just means you committed the very fallacy you accused your opponent of.
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08-09-2014, 01:38 PM
RE: Is Intelligence a Factor?
(07-09-2014 02:51 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  Is intelligence a factor in what? Insanity or religiosity?

I guess I am really asking many questions poorly and simultaneously.

Is intelligence important or necessary for someone to reason their way out of religion? Is it possible or even desirable to reason a legitimately slow person out of their faith?

Should Atheists label believers as unintelligent or insane when they hold unintelligent or insane beliefs?

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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08-09-2014, 01:44 PM
RE: Is Intelligence a Factor?
(07-09-2014 07:18 AM)Airportkid Wrote:  
(07-09-2014 02:51 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  ... intelligent people would have an easier time being religious; they are better at rationalising ...

They are better at RESISTING rationalization, which would account for the inverse correlation. It's like the old adage: The superior pilot uses his superior judgement to avoid having to use his superior skills. Tongue

So, in either case an intelligent person is engaged in reasoning to justify his positions. He doesn't merely take it one faith. Is that accurate?

So, who do we consider the more intelligent, the believer who is engaged in complicated apologetic arguments, or the non-believer who has applies himself to a critique of those arguments and concludes they are not sound? Is it possible that the only difference is that one is correct and the other is not aware of that yet?

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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08-09-2014, 01:51 PM
RE: Is Intelligence a Factor?
(07-09-2014 07:23 AM)Ace Wrote:  I don't call them stupids............... though some of them do deserve it

I have before, sometimes a lot. I feel guilty about it because I think I understand more about the value of arguments now. I felt justified in being insulting to others because I didn't really believe I could reason them out of belief. Now, I am not so certain of that. I worry that if everyone felt justified just like I did, nobody would have successfully argued me out of my faith.

Quote:I prefer to call them intellectually misguided

and when they do whatever they want to support nonsense then I call then either Intellectually dishonest or Willfully ignorant usually both Smartass

but dealing with them is still infuriating Evil_monster

I don't know if I would call them misguided, because many of them deeply believe they are doing something moral and beneficial to others.

I would say, they are just ignorant of being incorrect. Sometimes they work really hard to stay ignorant, even though they are exposed to better information and ideas. Like you said, it can be infuriating. Sometimes I get so frustrated that it takes a really serious effort to remember that there is another human being at a computer screen somewhere who deserves more than just rage.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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10-09-2014, 02:32 PM
RE: Is Intelligence a Factor?
(08-09-2014 01:38 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  
(07-09-2014 02:51 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  Is intelligence a factor in what? Insanity or religiosity?

I guess I am really asking many questions poorly and simultaneously.

Is intelligence important or necessary for someone to reason their way out of religion? Is it possible or even desirable to reason a legitimately slow person out of their faith?

Should Atheists label believers as unintelligent or insane when they hold unintelligent or insane beliefs?
I don't think someone has to be particularly intelligent to see thru theistic arguments. They do need a certain amount of willingness to learn.
But mostly, I think believers have a strong emotional attachment to their beliefs. John Calvin said, "Faith is more of the heart than the brain." This quote from Despite Doubt, by Michael Wittmer is very telling:
"I dare you to persuade yourself that God does not exist. Try to make yourself not believe in God, if only for a moment. Tell yourself there is no God, no one who created and redeemed you, no one to raise you from the dead. You live, you die, and then you disappear, never to be seen or heard from again. Try to make yourself accept as fact that God does not exist. I bet you can’t do it.
Did a wave of nausea just wash over you? Did you break into a cold sweat and find that you had to sit down? Did you protest, “No! I do believe in God! I must believe in God!”"
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10-09-2014, 08:26 PM
RE: Is Intelligence a Factor?
From the atheists and theists I have personally met, I say theists and atheists alike are pretty much equal when it comes to intelligence. Many theists I have met have had Ph.Ds or other graduate degrees and came off as quite articulate and educated in conversation. I didn't meet as many atheists who openly acknowledged their beliefs but from those I assumed were likely atheists, I didn't see any lack of intelligence with them either. The theists and atheists appeared to be of the same intellect. Mind you a university and professional business environment tends to have individuals of higher intellect, so my sample is quite limited in scope.

Online, I have found myself surprised by what I saw.
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