Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
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26-07-2014, 08:14 PM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
Very few theists actually read their respective religious texts...

Probably for the same reason I didn't read much of this thread... Quite simply, I couldn't be arsed.

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26-07-2014, 09:23 PM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
cult |kəlt|
noun
a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object : the cult of St. Olaf.
• a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister : a network of Satan-worshiping cults.
• a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing : a cult of personality surrounding the leaders.
• [usu. as adj. ] a person or thing that is popular or fashionable, esp. among a particular section of society : a cult film.

DERIVATIVES
cultic |-tik| adjective
cultish adjective
cultishness noun
cultism |-ˌtizəm| noun
cultist |-tist| noun

ORIGIN early 17th cent. (originally denoting homage paid to a divinity): from French culte or Latin cultus ‘worship,’ from cult- ‘inhabited, cultivated, worshiped,’ from the verb colere.
***

I've always regarded every religion to be a cult.

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09-02-2017, 12:07 PM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
Well you are obviously not educated very well on the muslim faith as the holy book is not called the 'Koran It is the Qur'an and secondly the Qur'an is read aloud by the Imam in the mosque. Muslims take their religion very seriously and it is infact a peaceful faith. The teachings of Muhammad and the word of Allah talk about bringing peace to the world, loving your neighbour and looking after the sick , poor , elderly and orphans. They also view men and women as equal unlike the majority of faiths in the world such as Christians, Jews and Budhists etc. The muslims dont speak out to terrorist organisations such as isis because they are ( by the Qur'an) not muslim, even if they claim to be as they are bringinng about unneccesary pain and suffering. In the Qu'ran there is a reference to a 'Holy war' which is where Muslims have Allah's permission to protect themselves if certain requrements are met :in self defence,
when other nations have attacked an Islamic state, if another state is oppressing its own Muslims. But even with the grounds for a holy war they must:avoid injuring non-combatants,with the minimum necessary force,without anger,with humane treatment towards prisoners of war , women and children must be spared , their leader must be someone of great faith and not an army general or strategist ,they must also refrain from damaging buildings and monuments. So as you can see 'Islamic state' have not got any of the requirements for a holy war , met the conditions or followed the Qur'an, Allah , Muhammad or his teachings . Therefore they are not true muslims so it is not up to the muslim community to deal with these extremists.
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09-02-2017, 12:18 PM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
(09-02-2017 12:07 PM)niamh1011x Wrote:  Well you are obviously not educated very well on the muslim faith as the holy book is not called the 'Koran It is the Qur'an and secondly the Qur'an is read aloud by the Imam in the mosque. Muslims take their religion very seriously and it is infact a peaceful faith. The teachings of Muhammad and the word of Allah talk about bringing peace to the world, loving your neighbour and looking after the sick , poor , elderly and orphans. They also view men and women as equal unlike the majority of faiths in the world such as Christians, Jews and Budhists etc. The muslims dont speak out to terrorist organisations such as isis because they are ( by the Qur'an) not muslim, even if they claim to be as they are bringinng about unneccesary pain and suffering. In the Qu'ran there is a reference to a 'Holy war' which is where Muslims have Allah's permission to protect themselves if certain requrements are met :in self defence,
when other nations have attacked an Islamic state, if another state is oppressing its own Muslims. But even with the grounds for a holy war they must:avoid injuring non-combatants,with the minimum necessary force,without anger,with humane treatment towards prisoners of war , women and children must be spared , their leader must be someone of great faith and not an army general or strategist ,they must also refrain from damaging buildings and monuments. So as you can see 'Islamic state' have not got any of the requirements for a holy war , met the conditions or followed the Qur'an, Allah , Muhammad or his teachings . Therefore they are not true muslims so it is not up to the muslim community to deal with these extremists.

Welcome to TTA,

Here's a fruit basket to mark your arrival:

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But the good news for humanity is that the vast majority of muslims have not studied the Quran so they are as peaceful as the christians who have not read the bible.

We can be grateful for that.

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09-02-2017, 12:26 PM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
(09-02-2017 12:07 PM)niamh1011x Wrote:  Well you are obviously not educated very well on the muslim faith as the holy book is not called the 'Koran It is the Qur'an and secondly the Qur'an is read aloud by the Imam in the mosque.

It has long been transliterated as "Koran" although "Qur'an" is probably closer to the original.

Quote:Muslims take their religion very seriously and it is infact a peaceful faith. The teachings of Muhammad and the word of Allah talk about bringing peace to the world,

(by subjugating everybody to Islam)

Quote:loving your neighbour and looking after the sick , poor , elderly and orphans. They also view men and women as equal unlike the majority of faiths in the world such as Christians, Jews and Budhists etc.

That seems hard to believe given the way many Islamic societies reduce women to second class status.

Quote:.... a whole bunch of stuff...

The problem is that, like the Christian bible and many other "holy" texts, you can find justification for almost any view by reading selectively From what I've seen, most people take away exactly what they brought in. If you want to foster peace then you can find a great deal to support that. If you want to enact vengeance then you can find a great deal to support that.

Quote: Therefore they are not true muslims so it is not up to the muslim community to deal with these extremists.

On the contrary, if they are claiming to act in the name of Islam and the Muslim community then it is very much up to that community to stand up and tell them that they are wrong.

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09-02-2017, 12:50 PM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
The difference between religion and cult is merely a matter of acceptance by the general population. A debate on it would be centered mostly around semantics.

That said, yeah, most of the Taliban detainees we dealt with were illiterate. They couldn't have read the Koran if they'd wanted to. Everything they knew came from a combination of cultural tradition and random shit their cartel like leaders told them they should believe.

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09-02-2017, 02:54 PM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
(09-02-2017 12:07 PM)niamh1011x Wrote:  Well you are obviously not educated very well on the muslim faith as the holy book is not called the 'Koran It is the Qur'an and secondly the Qur'an is read aloud by the Imam in the mosque. Muslims take their religion very seriously and it is infact a peaceful faith. The teachings of Muhammad and the word of Allah talk about bringing peace to the world, loving your neighbour and looking after the sick , poor , elderly and orphans. They also view men and women as equal unlike the majority of faiths in the world such as Christians, Jews and Budhists etc. The muslims dont speak out to terrorist organisations such as isis because they are ( by the Qur'an) not muslim, even if they claim to be as they are bringinng about unneccesary pain and suffering. In the Qu'ran there is a reference to a 'Holy war' which is where Muslims have Allah's permission to protect themselves if certain requrements are met :in self defence,
when other nations have attacked an Islamic state, if another state is oppressing its own Muslims. But even with the grounds for a holy war they must:avoid injuring non-combatants,with the minimum necessary force,without anger,with humane treatment towards prisoners of war , women and children must be spared , their leader must be someone of great faith and not an army general or strategist ,they must also refrain from damaging buildings and monuments. So as you can see 'Islamic state' have not got any of the requirements for a holy war , met the conditions or followed the Qur'an, Allah , Muhammad or his teachings . Therefore they are not true muslims so it is not up to the muslim community to deal with these extremists.



I live in a Muslim country. The mosques are empty. No one reads the Qu'ran.

A friend of mine, with an M.A, got out his Qu'ran and said, in front of his wife and kids, that it had everything in it which anyone needed to live their lives. I asked him if he had read it and he said, "No, not a word". They don't read it because most of them can't read Arabic and they are forbidden reading it in their own language. My fried never went to Mosque. His wife didn't wear a hijab, his daughters were Swifties and he drank alcohol and smoked. He is a "typical" Muslim in my experience. I have never had a single Muslim talk to me about religion, show me anything religious or display any characteristics of what we see on the news out of Syria, and I live next door to Syria.

The problem is that ordinary Muslims have a passing knowledge of what's in the Qu'ran. Few listen to any Immam or go to Mosques. They watch Western TV, drive BMWs and Mercs. They wear Western clothes etc etc etc. The big difference I find between living in North America and here is that there is far more religion on TV and far more proseletysing about religion in the West than there is here and far more people rebuking me about my religious beliefs. I told my friend and he told some other Muslims at a party, that I didn't believe in God and they all just laughed and had another drink.
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09-02-2017, 03:08 PM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
Every religion ever invented is a cult.
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09-02-2017, 03:14 PM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
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09-02-2017, 03:22 PM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
(09-02-2017 12:18 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(09-02-2017 12:07 PM)niamh1011x Wrote:  Well you are obviously not educated very well on the muslim faith as the holy book is not called the 'Koran It is the Qur'an and secondly the Qur'an is read aloud by the Imam in the mosque. Muslims take their religion very seriously and it is infact a peaceful faith. The teachings of Muhammad and the word of Allah talk about bringing peace to the world, loving your neighbour and looking after the sick , poor , elderly and orphans. They also view men and women as equal unlike the majority of faiths in the world such as Christians, Jews and Budhists etc. The muslims dont speak out to terrorist organisations such as isis because they are ( by the Qur'an) not muslim, even if they claim to be as they are bringinng about unneccesary pain and suffering. In the Qu'ran there is a reference to a 'Holy war' which is where Muslims have Allah's permission to protect themselves if certain requrements are met :in self defence,
when other nations have attacked an Islamic state, if another state is oppressing its own Muslims. But even with the grounds for a holy war they must:avoid injuring non-combatants,with the minimum necessary force,without anger,with humane treatment towards prisoners of war , women and children must be spared , their leader must be someone of great faith and not an army general or strategist ,they must also refrain from damaging buildings and monuments. So as you can see 'Islamic state' have not got any of the requirements for a holy war , met the conditions or followed the Qur'an, Allah , Muhammad or his teachings . Therefore they are not true muslims so it is not up to the muslim community to deal with these extremists.

Welcome to TTA,

Here's a fruit basket to mark your arrival:

[Image: maxresdefault.jpg]

But the good news for humanity is that the vast majority of muslims have not studied the Quran so they are as peaceful as the christians who have not read the bible.

We can be grateful for that.

Thumbsup

I'm not sure I agree with this line of reasoning. Christians do read the New Testament, religiously. lol

There is a considerable difference between the books of the three Abrahamic religions. The OT is a history of the world and of a "people" from Adam until the demise of their kingdom and it's subjugation to Rome. It has a god who is a big man in the sky with a nasty temper.

The New Testament is the story of a man who preaches a distinct philosophy based on a god being "the word". That is expressly stated in the book, which is not stated in the OT. It has a moral philosophy which is stated to be derived from the OT but is probably just a product of secular rational Roman, Hellenistic, thinking, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". It gives examples of what this means and parables of how it operates in real life, called parables and it uses the superman story to hook readers of the religion of the day who would be likely to follow it if the protagonist was their "messiah" so it is laced with references to "events" which have some analogy to their relgion, ie., son of god, healing, walking on water, his name.

The Qu'ran, is a rambling lot of nonsense of the same nasty old god of the OT. It's a violent polemic which rejects "all" of what might be called "Western" degradation. It contains a lot of hate speech against what were probably, imo, the feudal ruling class of the day in the Near East, before the diaspora of Europeans who inhabited the Near East back then. It was probably written by clerics in Sanaa, Yemen, as a political manifesto to unify Arabs in a political vacuum created by a collapse of the feudal system in the Near East in the late 7th century after some climactic change which resulted in the area becoming a desert.

It's very easy to distill the moral philosophy of Christianity. It's contained in a few paragraphs of Matthew. I would say that for most people, it's impossible to discern what Islam is about from reading the Qu'ran. I've read large parts of it and it seems to be all about heaping praise on Allah and the Prophet and threats to throw people into the crusher. Of course, it's perfect for a cult, because you just take the existing religion, whatever it is, and write a new and totally incomprehensible book, which only you have a copy of, and you tell everyone that it is the word of god and that onl you can tell them what is in it, since only you can read. lol.

Of course, if you live in a Muslim country, the only aspect of the religion which is obvious are the rituals, and they are similar to "Judaism", eg., celebrating Abraham's decision not to sacrifice his son, viz, the Goat Bayram, the call to prayer, circumcision, no pork, only eat Halal (Kosher) foods. The rituals of Islam are largely from Judaism and that is how most Muslims see themselves, as people who follow these traditions and rituals. Very few actually have read the Qu'ran carefully enough or have the opportunity to kill an apostate, tax one or make one convert to Islam.

The problem is that there are some countries which are more orthodox, like Saudi the Gulf states and, also, that in countries where there are fewer Muslims, Muslims turn to the Qu'ran to find out what their religion is, and then, when they read the book, they read about all the nasty things they are supposed to do to infidels. There are also countries where people are less educated, like Pakistan, where there are a lot of ignorant people who listen to Immams and buy all this violence and hate, like the equivalent of Southern red neck trash who spew fire and brimstone because that's what they're taught and it appeals to their baser natures.

That's how I see it anyway. It's all a disaster, to be frank, anyway you look at it.
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