Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
09-02-2017, 03:44 PM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
(09-02-2017 12:26 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(09-02-2017 12:07 PM)niamh1011x Wrote:  Well you are obviously not educated very well on the muslim faith as the holy book is not called the 'Koran It is the Qur'an and secondly the Qur'an is read aloud by the Imam in the mosque.

It has long been transliterated as "Koran" although "Qur'an" is probably closer to the original.

Quote:Muslims take their religion very seriously and it is infact a peaceful faith. The teachings of Muhammad and the word of Allah talk about bringing peace to the world,

(by subjugating everybody to Islam)

Quote:loving your neighbour and looking after the sick , poor , elderly and orphans. They also view men and women as equal unlike the majority of faiths in the world such as Christians, Jews and Budhists etc.

That seems hard to believe given the way many Islamic societies reduce women to second class status.

Quote:.... a whole bunch of stuff...

The problem is that, like the Christian bible and many other "holy" texts, you can find justification for almost any view by reading selectively From what I've seen, most people take away exactly what they brought in. If you want to foster peace then you can find a great deal to support that. If you want to enact vengeance then you can find a great deal to support that.

Quote: Therefore they are not true muslims so it is not up to the muslim community to deal with these extremists.

On the contrary, if they are claiming to act in the name of Islam and the Muslim community then it is very much up to that community to stand up and tell them that they are wrong.

Specifically @Quote:
loving your neighbour and looking after the sick , poor , elderly and orphans. They also view men and women as equal unlike the majority of faiths in the world such as Christians, Jews and Budhists etc."

...loving your neighbour.... Seriously, have you even read the New Testament? Do you even know what the New Testament is? I find this baffling. The Koran talks of taxing or killing people if they don't agree with your religious views. Christianity, in stark contrasts says that you should love your enemies and love even those who do you harm. It tells you to treat everyone equally.

This just goes to show that Islam is a cult, except among those who just don't follow it, which is most Muslims, because those who do profess to follow the religion just trott out this baffling load of nonsense which has no basis in reality. It's a religion of peace...which calls for people to be killed in it's name. It treats women equally...so long as they accept their subservient status.

The only places in the Islamic world where what this poster says is remotely true are those countries which have become quasi-western style "democracies" such as Bosnia, Turkey, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and, yes, Syria, and also Iran and Iraq.

Oh, and, hey, niamh1011x, you can say the same thing about how "Christians" in the West are killing Muslims in the Middle East and we could say the same thing, tht these aren't Christians, so Christians have no duty to speak up against it. Except, the opposite is true in the West, and you don't know it because you are ignorant...because of your religious intolerance... People in the West do oppose their governments and Christians and non-Christians all speak out against governments if they wage wars which aren't justified and that is happening right now with Syria and the war in Yemen. Christians themselves rebelled against their own religion in what is called the Reformation and changed their own religion. Where Christians take their religion too seriously and engage in practices which are not Christian, other Christians do take issue with it and try to do something about it.

So, what are you suggesting? ISIS is not real Islam, so it's up to non-Muslims to do something about it? Not your problem if they slaughter innocent people in the mistaken belief they are following your religion and all you can do is come here and tell us it's not your concern? That is moral cowardice and intellectual bankruptcy. Grow up.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Deltabravo's post
09-02-2017, 03:49 PM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
I've learned that any thread begun by DB is designed to cause trouble. Therefore I do not read them.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-02-2017, 03:51 PM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
duplicate post oops. Most go now. beddies.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-02-2017, 04:06 PM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
(09-02-2017 03:49 PM)Banjo Wrote:  I've learned that any thread begun by DB is designed to cause trouble. Therefore I do not read them.

Oh, crap. Really? I'm so disappointed.

What exactly do you mean, "designed to cause trouble"?

What's the point of a discussion forum? I post here because I have "ideas" going round in my head. I post them to see what other people think. That's all. I read some place about some theory and I find it interesting to see what other people think and maybe to advance, or debunk the theory.

For example. I read Charlton Ogburn's book about Edward deVere being Shakespeare back in the 1980's and thought it was very interesting. They made a movie about it called Anonymous a few years ago and now it's a theory that is all over the place whereas back then, you couldn't find anyone who knew anything about it. It seemed to me to be a very plausible theory.

After Anonymous came out, I went onto a forum and had a long debate over a couple of years about it. Of course, a lot of people call this another conspiracy theory and I was caste as a crank etc etc.

I read all the criticisms of the Oxford/deVere theory and I took a lot of it on board and I changed my views on it.

It resulted in my writing a short piece on another writer with similar problems, Robert Burns, and I showed connections by way of a literary tradition going back to James IV of Scotland which explained how Shakespeare's works were written. I sent this to a Ph.D candidate in London and it was circulated among various Shakespearean academics.

The result of this was that I received an invitation from Mark Rylance to attend a Shakesperean conference in London a couple of years ago.

My view is that if you do your research on almost any topic, and you listen to what other people say, you can get to the truth of most things, including the origins of Western religions, the identity of Jesus, and Mohammed. I don't talk about Mohammed or Judaism, for instance, because I don't know enough about the religions and have no great interest in them as religions. I am interested in Islam in relation to the situation I find myself in, being just a hundred and fifty miles or so from Aleppo and it's very worrying, to be honest, when you're told there are ISIS safe houses nearby and every incident here is attributed to them and there are all sorts of cars on the streets with Iraqi licence plates.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Deltabravo's post
10-02-2017, 01:08 AM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
(09-02-2017 02:54 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  ...
I live in a Muslim country. The mosques are empty. No one reads the Qu'ran.
...

Ditto. Although there are a few who say they have read it and a good number who have learned the chants (prayers) by rote ... only a subset of which understand the language those prayers are chanted in.

Quote:...
They don't read it because most of them can't read Arabic
...

Precisely.

Quote:...
and they are forbidden reading it in their own language. My fried never went to Mosque. His wife didn't wear a hijab, his daughters were Swifties and he drank alcohol and smoked. He is a "typical" Muslim in my experience. I have never had a single Muslim talk to me about religion, show me anything religious or display any characteristics of what we see on the news out of Syria,
...

Pretty much ditto.
The hijab has apparently become more fashionable over the last decade or so and where some wear it as an identifier, most here will wear it because of "a bad hair day". There is a tradition for the guys to go the mosque on Fridays and most celebrate Ramadan in the same way that most Westerners (believers or otherwise) celebrate christmas.

Quote:...
The problem is that ordinary Muslims have a passing knowledge of what's in the Qu'ran. Few listen to any Immam or go to Mosques. They watch Western TV, drive BMWs and Mercs. They wear Western clothes etc etc etc. The big difference I find between living in North America and here is that there is far more religion on TV and far more proseletysing about religion in the West than there is here and far more people rebuking me about my religious beliefs. I told my friend and he told some other Muslims at a party, that I didn't believe in God and they all just laughed and had another drink.

Indeed. The dangers of privatisation ... competition for survival.

And as I've noted elsewhere, there's a big difference between a Hobbesian-style state religion vs. a theocratic religious state.

(09-02-2017 03:22 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  
(09-02-2017 12:18 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Welcome to TTA,

Here's a fruit basket to mark your arrival:

[Image: maxresdefault.jpg]

But the good news for humanity is that the vast majority of muslims have not studied the Quran so they are as peaceful as the christians who have not read the bible.

We can be grateful for that.

Thumbsup

I'm not sure I agree with this line of reasoning. Christians do read the New Testament, religiously. lol
...

Some, yes, selectively. Over here, the most 'devout' tend to be from the Philippines. Mis-educated rather than uneducated.

One filipina ex-colleague (unusually a non-catholic christian) struggled to comprehend my Epicurean lifestyle - no possessions; no investments; thinking not of the morrow; magnanimity (forgiveness, charity etc.); not charging rent from the ladies who pass through; promiscuity; you wash my feet, I'll wash yours ... I bet you can see where I'm going with this.

Whereas her lifestyle was about wealth and temporal plans for her earthly future.

She read her bible religiously (and still does; and pastes quotes all over her social media, I'm told) but focuses on passages about happiness and hope... cherry picking.

Her aunt survived cancer because she prayed not because of the treatment that my colleague could afford to pay for. Whereas another filipina friend's (friend of mine, not hers) aunt died because she can't have prayed hard enough and had nothing to do with poverty.
When her own mother died, I helped pay for the funeral because my ex-colleague had not been earning for a while and apparently this was a gift from her god.

She didn't understand what I meant when I asked why she didn't want to leave her dead unburied. (Yeah, I know that was harsh but I was pissed off).

So when you say they read it religiously, OK, I agree ... as long as "religiously" is defined as hypocritically and sycophantically.

Quote:...
It's very easy to distill the moral philosophy of Christianity. It's contained in a few paragraphs of Matthew.
...

That might be one philosophy of Christianity but even if it is the predominant one, it's still cherry picking.

Quote:...
I would say that for most people, it's impossible to discern what Islam is about from reading the Qu'ran. I've read large parts of it and it seems to be all about heaping praise on Allah and the Prophet and threats to throw people into the crusher.
...

Yup. That's what I read too.

Quote:...
Of course, if you live in a Muslim country, the only aspect of the religion which is obvious are the rituals, and they are similar to "Judaism", eg., celebrating Abraham's decision not to sacrifice his son, viz, the Goat Bayram, the call to prayer, circumcision, no pork, only eat Halal (Kosher) foods. The rituals of Islam are largely from Judaism and that is how most Muslims see themselves, as people who follow these traditions and rituals. Very few actually have read the Qu'ran carefully enough or have the opportunity to kill an apostate, tax one or make one convert to Islam.
...

Again, yes. This is my experience.

Quote:...
There are also countries where people are less educated, like Pakistan, where there are a lot of ignorant people who listen to Immams and buy all this violence and hate, like the equivalent of Southern red neck trash who spew fire and brimstone because that's what they're taught and it appeals to their baser natures.

That's how I see it anyway. It's all a disaster, to be frank, anyway you look at it.

Yup. Is Betsy Devos from one of the Southern states?

But to defend Pakistan (or at least, Karachi) my experience was exactly as described above i.e. Islam is a framework / tradition rather than a compliance / religion.

And the more fervent interpretations / greater defensiveness of beliefs will be found in the lower-educated, less-collaborative, harsher environments but the same goes for conservative vs. liberal.

(09-02-2017 03:49 PM)Banjo Wrote:  I've learned that any thread begun by DB is designed to cause trouble. Therefore I do not read them.

I think it comes down to whether you enjoy discussion or prefer debate.

I find the threads that go:
Assertion
Rebuttal
Yabut
Re-yabut-tal
.. a bit tedious sometimes. I have no problem if someone wants to throw out an idea in a join-the-dots kinda way and asks for counter-opinions.

It's when the two techniques clash that things get defensive and messy.
(as Velvet, Aliza, Jennybee etc. can all testify).

Yes

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like DLJ's post
10-02-2017, 04:58 AM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
(26-07-2014 05:48 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I have had conversations with a few Muslims I know and none of them has* read the Koran! All educated people too. It made me realize that Islam is just a cult in the worst way because it's followers are indoctrinated and don't make their own minds up based on what they understand the religion to be.

If they "don't make up their minds based on what they understand the religion to be", than what is it they make up their minds, based on ?
Facepalm

*have

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-02-2017, 04:59 AM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
(09-02-2017 03:49 PM)Banjo Wrote:  I've learned that any thread begun by DB is designed to cause trouble. Therefore I do not read them.

They're usually good for a few laughs. Yes

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
10-02-2017, 05:11 AM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
Hardly anyone properly reads any sacred text. They just focus on parts that have been highlighted to them, including what they have been told it means.

All religions are cults, it's just that they are socially acceptable. Islam happens to be the most dangerous one at the moment. It seems less flexible and less able to fit into secular societies. I've heard this might be because the Quran is more consistently horrible, and has less "nice bits" people can use to edit stuff out with. My study of it so far certainly supports this.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Robvalue's post
10-02-2017, 05:56 AM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
(10-02-2017 04:58 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  ...
If they "don't make up their minds based on what they understand the religion to be", than* what is it they make up their minds, based on ?
...

*then

Rolleyes

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes DLJ's post
10-02-2017, 07:59 AM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
Y'all motherfuckers need Gwynnies! Laugh out load

[Image: ZF1ZJ4M.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like houseofcantor's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: