Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
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10-02-2017, 08:25 AM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
Religion: believing stuff someone else made up, or making up your own stuff.

Anyone can do it, anytime. There are no rules. Because none of it has anything to do with reality, there are no standards. And as such, it's all completely useless.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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11-02-2017, 03:09 PM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
DLJ, thanks for the expansive response. It seems your experiences are similar to mine. I have to say it's been an eye-opener.

I could say more about the day to day behaviour of Muslims here. In short, the people who provide services in shops, neighbours, people in the shops and streets, are very polite, very conservative in their attitudes, almost puritanical, at least on the surface.

However, the business ethos is utterly corrupt. The lawyers are thieves and liars. One was in the paper this weekend for faking a lawsuit against his own client so he could charge fees. He forged a claim and the signature of another lawyer who was eventually contacted by the court and asked why he didn't turn up at a court hearing. The doctors are "butchers". We have a handful of them on trial here for murder. They ran a service for late term pregnancies. Here is where Trump is wrong and right. Here, they deliver the child live, then kill it. They actually do rip the child out of the womb. But, this is a back street abortion center and this is where people come from countries which ban abortions.

Anyway, I digress. The business life here is pretty cut throat, with lots of black money and illegal dealings, sex slavery, brothels, casinos, drugs... You name it, you can get it here. Totally immoral under the surface.

However, if someone sees you through your hedge, skinny dipping in your own swimming pool, they'll call the police, because they are all totally repressed sexually.

Oh, and the women have big noses. lol Just kidding.
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11-02-2017, 05:42 PM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
Sexuality seems to be an issue with religion. Many religions seem to push their congregations to be either overtly sexual or highly repressed.

As far as I can tell, religion - all religion - is about control. It wouldn't be quite so bad if it was just about self control. But where's the fun/power in that? Wink

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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11-02-2017, 09:19 PM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
Absolutely.

Hugo and Jake said they don't think Christianity was originally about just controlling people, but that it got used for that over time. They do think Islam was designed specifically to control people.

I tend to agree. The bible is a confused mess. The Quran is a really scary, efficient indoctrination manual. It doesn't fuck around. It makes errors and contradictions of course, due to bad editing and compilation, but the theme is very clear to me.

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11-02-2017, 09:35 PM (This post was last modified: 12-02-2017 02:58 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
(26-07-2014 06:10 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  
(26-07-2014 06:01 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Why pick on Muslims ? How many Christians or Jews have read the OT or the NT ?
What does "and don't make their own minds up based on what they understand the religion to be" even mean ? Who actually makes up their mind for them if they don't ? One can make up one's mind without reading the books. It may not be very well informed, but they still make up their own minds.

More crap from deltabravo.

Wow!

There is a vast difference between these religions. Have you heard of the "Reformation"? Is there a history of Islamic sholars being burnt at the stake for translating the Koran into their native tongue?

In a cult, followers are told what to believe by the leader, just as in Islam.

Have you, Bucky, read the Koran? What do you think of it? What are you anyway, an apologist for Islam? I thought this was an atheist forum but you seem to want to support Islam.

Here is something which yoiu will also probably call "crap" about the rise of Islam http://www.dankalia.com/islam/isl409.pdf

This suggests that Islam arose out of an environmental crisis in the Near East and the collapse of the feudal system in the area in the sixth century.

Islam is no different than any other religion. You seem to have forgotten about the torture in the Inquisition, and the MANY other examples of Christian intolerance and violent interference.
Islam was cooked up to control the expanding Arabic Empire.
You really know NOTHING about history, or anything else, for that matter.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid169445

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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12-02-2017, 04:40 AM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
(09-02-2017 12:07 PM)niamh1011x Wrote:  Well you are obviously not educated very well on the muslim faith as the holy book is not called the 'Koran It is the Qur'an and secondly the Qur'an is read aloud by the Imam in the mosque. Muslims take their religion very seriously and it is infact a peaceful faith. The teachings of Muhammad and the word of Allah talk about bringing peace to the world, loving your neighbour and looking after the sick , poor , elderly and orphans. They also view men and women as equal unlike the majority of faiths in the world such as Christians, Jews and Budhists etc. The muslims dont speak out to terrorist organisations such as isis because they are ( by the Qur'an) not muslim, even if they claim to be as they are bringinng about unneccesary pain and suffering. In the Qu'ran there is a reference to a 'Holy war' which is where Muslims have Allah's permission to protect themselves if certain requrements are met :in self defence,
when other nations have attacked an Islamic state, if another state is oppressing its own Muslims. But even with the grounds for a holy war they must:avoid injuring non-combatants,with the minimum necessary force,without anger,with humane treatment towards prisoners of war , women and children must be spared , their leader must be someone of great faith and not an army general or strategist ,they must also refrain from damaging buildings and monuments. So as you can see 'Islamic state' have not got any of the requirements for a holy war , met the conditions or followed the Qur'an, Allah , Muhammad or his teachings . Therefore they are not true muslims so it is not up to the muslim community to deal with these extremists.

Majority of Muslims does not understand the Quran. For example, Muslims in my country, they do know how to read and write in Arabic, but they are clueless when it comes to translating or understanding the words they read. I live in a 98% Muslim country, and out of 75 million population, if you can come up with 5% who understands Arabic, I'd be very impressed. Most of them go with whatever they hear from their Imam's, sort of like, "if Imam says it, it must be true".

Islam has a 1400 year reign in the Middle East. Everywhere Islam has pushed into it has taken control of. The modern Muslim is taught this, be it in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, India, France, or America. Being confronted or living with another system of power greater than Islam provokes anxiety among adherents. When challenged on their beliefs, many feel like their backs are against the wall. Each of Islam's doctrinal books states its own divinity and authority. It claims to be the final, universal, and unalterable word of God. All of its founding practices were done by a man lacking divinity. It comes complete with an authority structure, code of laws for civil, political, and military life. It has an answer to all of man's questions either through poetry or direct example of Muhammad. The complete works have used previous divine works to correct contradictions and to utilize abrogation. It has been constructed to appear flawless for those inside of it, a scenario that the vast majority of Christians are unfamiliar with. The scale of its practice is global and looks to become larger than Christendom. Its conquests are total, overturning long standing laws with Sharia. As a political and military machine, it is unique. Unlike Europe's spread of Christianity, which was more driven by commerce, Islam engages in conquest for conquest's sake, spreading the Qur'an by the sword.
In all, Islam presents a powerful feeling in its followers, because it gives them access to divinity and 1400 years of success to point. Almost nowhere has Islam had a stranglehold and then lost total influence. Being part of Islam gives Muslims a kind of meaning to life that we, as atheists, struggle to grasp.

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12-02-2017, 05:52 AM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
It's a fucking horrible meaning though. It's all about submitting to a tyrant. And forcing women to submit to you, of course.

A Muslim dude I talked to before was actually proud to describe himself as a "Slave to Allah", and couldn't understand why that wasn't an appealing prospect to me.

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12-02-2017, 06:27 AM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
(12-02-2017 05:52 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  It's a fucking horrible meaning though. It's all about submitting to a tyrant. And forcing women to submit to you, of course.

A Muslim dude I talked to before was actually proud to describe himself as a "Slave to Allah", and couldn't understand why that wasn't an appealing prospect to me.

Well, when the name of religion translates literally to 'submission'? To be a practitioner of Islam is to submit to Allah, kind of a part and parcel for their faith. Still, different cultures, different standards. The slave mentality looks really creepy when colored from a western first world perspective, but then again, so does the Bushido perspective on honor.

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12-02-2017, 06:55 AM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
Seems to me the OP is the pot calling the kettle black, Christianity is also a cult. It begs the question is the OP simply trying to shore up and justify his own belief system ? So many brands of Christianity have a schizophrenic combined superiority / inferiority complex as does Islam, my own personal theory is that all religious people secretly deep down inside in the area of their psyche where truth is unobscured by bullshit know their belief system makes no sense and that there probably isn't a god. I guess you could call me a presuppositional atheist. Big Grin
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12-02-2017, 07:39 AM
RE: Is Islam a cult? Muslims don't read the Koran!
Oh, is the OP a Christian? Yeah, that's a cult too. A death cult.

It's only "better" now because it's been tamed by secular law, mostly, in the West. You're not allowed to do the stuff it says in the book anymore. Although there are some sick people out there who wish they could.

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