Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of all 3?
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04-10-2012, 11:59 AM
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of al
(04-10-2012 10:22 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(03-10-2012 10:46 AM)kim Wrote:  It might help to understand that a photon is the basic unit of both light and the electromagnetic force. Photons are unique in that they have properties of a wave as well as of a particle. This means that it can be refracted by a lens or (polarization- up/down/left/right) interfere with other waves, but it can also be detected when analyzed as a particle.

Photons are unusual particles in that they have no mass. They also don't have an electric charge, and they do not spontaneously decay. In empty space, photons move at the speed of light; their energy are determined only by frequency. The speed of a photon can also slow down as it passes through materials other than empty space (like a vacuum).

Photons are emitted when a charged particle is accelerated, or when a molecule, atom or nucleus goes from one energy state to another, or are released when a particle and its antiparticle are destroyed.

An example of a particle and its antiparticle is an electron (particle) and the positron (antiparticle). When these two subatomic particles encounter each other, both are nullified and often photons are released.

It might be easier to consider that photons come from electrons that fall from one energy level to another.

***
The thing about light... anything with no mass always travels at the speed of light. But since the speed-of-light is always the speed-of-light to everyone, there’s no way for these objects to ever be stationary, unlike stuff with mass. Light and ordinary matter are very different, and the laws that govern them are just as different.

a wave of what? particles? Why is a wave of something classified as different then what is in the wave?

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04-10-2012, 12:35 PM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2012 01:27 PM by kim.)
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of al
(04-10-2012 10:22 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(03-10-2012 10:46 AM)kim Wrote:  It might help to understand that a photon is the basic unit of both light and the electromagnetic force. Photons are unique in that they have properties of a wave as well as of a particle. This means that it can be refracted by a lens or (polarization- up/down/left/right) interfere with other waves, but it can also be detected when analyzed as a particle.

a wave of what? particles? Why is a wave of something classified as different then what is in the wave?

Photons are unique in that they have properties of a wave
as well as
of a particle.


This means a photons can somewhat be observed and/or measured different ways...
Photons have properties of a wave... would indicate one way to observe and/or measure a photon.
Photons have properties of a particle... would indicate an entirely different way to observe and/or measure a photon.

Specific ways have been devised in order to observe and/or measure things. Some things may be observed and/or measured as a wave, some things might be observed and/or measured as a particle.

Science measures things. That is really the main thing science does.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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05-10-2012, 09:14 AM
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of al
Photons are not unique in having the properties of waves and particles. Any sufficiently small particle seems to have this property. It gets weirder. Talking in general terms about wave particle duality doesn't really help. It doesn't clarify anything really. Here's what seems to happen:
1. When small particles such as photons or electrons are moving, they act like a wave
2. When those particles arrive (when they interact with something else), they discharge their energy at a specific point.
When you build a sufficiently sensitive light detector you can see photons dropping onto the sensor, falling like rain. The same goes again for electrons or other particles. Each one discharges its energy at a specific point, like you might expect from a particle.
However, we still get these wave-like diffraction patterns. When we have two slits and spray particles at the slits we don't see the shadows of the slits on the other side. What we see is a diffraction pattern, like waves on the receptor. It's as if two waves have emanated out from each of the slits and interfered with each other. But still the photons fall like rain, arriving at specific random points on the detector within this diffraction pattern.
The crazy part is that even when you slow down the emissions so that only a single electron or a single photon is being emitted at a time, you still get the diffraction pattern. Even though we know that the photon had nothing to interfere with it, it is still interfered with. It seems to interfere with itself! It appears to pass through both slits simultaneously, come out of both slits, interfere with itself, and still arrive like rain falling on a single point on the receptor.

This is the experimental result at the core of quantum physics. It's that when small particles are moving they do so like a wave that describes a probability function. When they arrive, they arrive and deliver their energy at a single random point distributed according to that probability function.

A modern interpretation of this result might be that we have a number of fundamental fields that extend throughout the universe, and energy travels through these fields in a way that behaves like a wave. When the field interacts with itself or with another field it releases the energy that is travelling through it in the form of a particle. In this interpretation quantum tunnelling can be explained by the energy of the field travelling through an impenetrable barrier. The field can then discharge its energy as a "new" particle on the other side of the barrier.

However, that interpretation I think is still in the realm of metaphysics - ie it does not predict anything that can be tested. The truth may be stranger still.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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08-10-2012, 04:58 PM
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of al
(04-10-2012 12:35 PM)kim Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 10:22 AM)I and I Wrote:  a wave of what? particles? Why is a wave of something classified as different then what is in the wave?

Photons are unique in that they have properties of a wave
as well as
of a particle.


This means a photons can somewhat be observed and/or measured different ways...
Photons have properties of a wave... would indicate one way to observe and/or measure a photon.
Photons have properties of a particle... would indicate an entirely different way to observe and/or measure a photon.

Specific ways have been devised in order to observe and/or measure things. Some things may be observed and/or measured as a wave, some things might be observed and/or measured as a particle.

Science measures things. That is really the main thing science does.

There is a big difference in wording and how it is meant.

So which statement is true.

1. Photons have both properties of a particle and wave.

2. A photon has both properties of a particle and wave.

And why exactly is a wave of x's considered something different than one x. A wave of water doesn't make the properties of the water any different in any physical way.
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08-10-2012, 05:02 PM
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of al
(08-10-2012 04:58 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 12:35 PM)kim Wrote:  Photons are unique in that they have properties of a wave
as well as
of a particle.


This means a photons can somewhat be observed and/or measured different ways...
Photons have properties of a wave... would indicate one way to observe and/or measure a photon.
Photons have properties of a particle... would indicate an entirely different way to observe and/or measure a photon.

Specific ways have been devised in order to observe and/or measure things. Some things may be observed and/or measured as a wave, some things might be observed and/or measured as a particle.

Science measures things. That is really the main thing science does.

There is a big difference in wording and how it is meant.

So which statement is true.

1. Photons have both properties of a particle and wave.

2. A photon has both properties of a particle and wave.

And why exactly is a wave of x's considered something different than one x. A wave of water doesn't make the properties of the water any different in any physical way.

That's a confusion of words.
A wave in a collection of matter is a very different thing than an electromagnetic wave.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-10-2012, 05:29 PM
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of al
(08-10-2012 05:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-10-2012 04:58 PM)I and I Wrote:  There is a big difference in wording and how it is meant.

So which statement is true.

1. Photons have both properties of a particle and wave.

2. A photon has both properties of a particle and wave.

And why exactly is a wave of x's considered something different than one x. A wave of water doesn't make the properties of the water any different in any physical way.

That's a confusion of words.
A wave in a collection of matter is a very different thing than an electromagnetic wave.

So which statement is correct?

A photon has both properties of a particle and a wave.
or
Photons have both properties of a particle and a wave.
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08-10-2012, 05:32 PM
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of al
(08-10-2012 05:29 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(08-10-2012 05:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  That's a confusion of words.
A wave in a collection of matter is a very different thing than an electromagnetic wave.

So which statement is correct?

A photon has both properties of a particle and a wave.
or
Photons have both properties of a particle and a wave.

A photon exhibits wave-particle duality.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-10-2012, 03:42 PM
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of al
(08-10-2012 05:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-10-2012 05:29 PM)I and I Wrote:  So which statement is correct?

A photon has both properties of a particle and a wave.
or
Photons have both properties of a particle and a wave.

A photon exhibits wave-particle duality.


A wave of what? A wave is not an object, it's an affect of something. A wave of.......
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09-10-2012, 04:22 PM (This post was last modified: 09-10-2012 11:29 PM by Bucky Ball.)
Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of all 3?
The Nobel Prize in Physics yesterday was awarded to two physicists whose work was in the field of Quantum Mechanics, and light. Not only is it absolutely real, 100 % apart from our intuitive perceptive expectations, but in years to come an entire industry of Quantum Computing will be based on QM. QM has been demonstrated to be 100 % science.

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-s...5301.story

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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09-10-2012, 04:30 PM
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of al
(09-10-2012 03:42 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(08-10-2012 05:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  A photon exhibits wave-particle duality.


A wave of what? A wave is not an object, it's an affect of something. A wave of.......

The photon is the object; wave is a behavior.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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