Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of all 3?
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09-10-2012, 08:30 PM
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of al
(09-10-2012 03:42 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(08-10-2012 05:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  A photon exhibits wave-particle duality.


A wave of what? A wave is not an object, it's an affect of something. A wave of.......

I and I,

It seems like you are trolling. I think if you were really serious about learning of the Nature of Quantum Mechanics, then you would consult a Physics Forum, and they could suggest to you what to read.

For example, you could buy and read Isaac Asimov's the History of Physics (http://www.amazon.com/The-History-Physic...802707513) which has as good an introduction to Quantum Mechanics as any text I have ever read. It starts out by covering the topics of the atom and wave/partical duality and discusses the experiments and observations which led to the Quantum Theory. You will find that not only is the Quantum Theory relevant, but it represents a rock-solid view of the workings of the universe - and this view is based on rock-solid data.

I suggest you give it a try.
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17-06-2013, 07:03 PM
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science...
Wonderful thread, it helped me to clarify several concepts and perceptions. Thanks everyone.
My problem with QM goes back to the double-slit and comes from the fact that I perceive the "interfering with itself" as a kind of giving-up. Why couldn't the interference be caused by something we don't know instead of that weird interpretation of the particle going both ways? Isn't the measure mechanism itself producing the collapse? (by affecting the particle).
That probably doesn't matter as the "colliding with itself" interpretation, even not verified by observation, does answer the rest of the questions and shows several other observable effects.
What if all that maths and probabilities is keeping us from finding the real reason of the interference?
I'm not even a science student, just a uneducated fan. For that reason I don't expect answers, even I'd love and thank them.
Thanks again.
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17-06-2013, 09:16 PM
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science...
(17-06-2013 07:03 PM)Merca Wrote:  Wonderful thread, it helped me to clarify several concepts and perceptions. Thanks everyone.
My problem with QM goes back to the double-slit and comes from the fact that I perceive the "interfering with itself" as a kind of giving-up. Why couldn't the interference be caused by something we don't know instead of that weird interpretation of the particle going both ways? Isn't the measure mechanism itself producing the collapse? (by affecting the particle).
That probably doesn't matter as the "colliding with itself" interpretation, even not verified by observation, does answer the rest of the questions and shows several other observable effects.
What if all that maths and probabilities is keeping us from finding the real reason of the interference?
I'm not even a science student, just a uneducated fan. For that reason I don't expect answers, even I'd love and thank them.
Thanks again.


You should read Hawking's The Grand Design. He goes through through the double slit experiment in a lot of detail and all at the conceptual level (no equations) so it is accessible no the non-scientist .

I do not think any reasonable interpretation of the results is that a single photon "interferes with itself", though you may see plenty of scientists say that it "looks as though" this is the case. Usually this is done to justify the correct prediction of QM that we see an interference pattern even if one photon at a time goes through the experiment. In The Grand Design, Hawking describes Feynman's methods for calculating results with quantum mechanics as calculating all possible paths. All possible paths in the double slit experiment includes the two openings, so we get a probability that includes both paths when we do not resolve which path is chosen through measurement.

This interpretation has a lot of implications about the universe we live in if as the evidence suggests at the beginning of the big bank the universe was on the size scale of quantum mechanics. The point of Hawking's book is to lay out those implications.
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17-06-2013, 09:43 PM
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science...
I don't like Hawking much, but I'll follow your suggestion. Thanks a lot.
I just came about this, wondering if you guys were aware of it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahriar_Afshar
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17-06-2013, 10:22 PM
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science...
(17-06-2013 09:43 PM)Merca Wrote:  I don't like Hawking much, but I'll follow your suggestion. Thanks a lot.
I just came about this, wondering if you guys were aware of it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahriar_Afshar

I hadn't looked into this issue before, but there are a number of criticisms on the page describing the setup:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afshar_experiment

His experiment is basically a double slit problem combined with a grating in front of a lens, such that the grating wires are located where the dark fringes should be.

This W.G. Unruh guy sets up a criticism I find convincing:
http://www.theory.physics.ubc.ca/rebel.html
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17-11-2013, 09:04 PM (This post was last modified: 17-11-2013 09:16 PM by Stevil.)
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of all 3?
.....
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17-11-2013, 09:15 PM
Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of all 3?
I like the part where an entire year later he's learned nothing.

It's a little piece of comforting stability in this crazy mixed-up modern world.

... this is my signature!
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17-11-2013, 10:05 PM (This post was last modified: 17-11-2013 10:35 PM by Chippy.)
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science...
@I&I:

I don't think you are "trolling" or playing Devil's advocate. You seem to think that every received position on every topic is false. You don't express doubt, rather you express certainty that every received opinion on every topic you care to post about is false. However you don't appear to want to subject this "global contrarianism" (for the want of a better description) to any scrutiny.

The validity of your global contrarianism is improbable. It is unlikely that:
--physicists are entirely wrong about the scientificity of QM
--virologists are entirely wrong about HIV/AIDS
--historians are entirely wrong about the WWII genocide
--engineers are wrong about September 11
--immunologists are entirely wrong about vaccination
--linguists and philosophers are wrong about the importance of language to humans
etc.

Every thread you start adds another improbable strand to this increasingly improbable braid. You appear to be sourcing the content of each thread from conspiracy websites and want to re-broadcast it as if it represents some profound truth that you have learnt.

You also never respond to interrogative posts, you just ignore them. You appear to want to broadcast your global contrarianism rather than have it scrutinised. Wouldn't YT video with comments disabled be better suited to your communication style? It is this complete disregard for your interlocutors--you don't even recognise interlocutors--that has motivated many forum member to refer to you as an "asshole".

Even when I have engaged with you in a civil manner you just ignore all counter-arguments I present. I linked you to the complete genomes of HIV-I and HIV-II but you continue with the assertion that HIV hasn't been isolated. The genomes are public. What is the probability that they are not what they are claimed to be and the worlds' virologists and geneticists (not to mention the many hundreds of undergraduates that the world produces every year) haven't noticed?
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17-11-2013, 10:08 PM
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of all 3?
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Official ordained minister of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Please pm me with prayer requests to his noodly goodness. Remember, he boiled for your sins and loves you. Carbo Diem! RAmen.
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17-11-2013, 10:09 PM
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of all 3?
I&I rule 21...never, ever answer a question.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude.
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