Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of all 3?
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30-09-2012, 08:09 AM
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of al
(30-09-2012 07:57 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(30-09-2012 07:40 AM)I and I Wrote:  If the Idea for something exists before the testing to verify it, then basically you are attempting to look for data that promotes the idea, I am not saying this doesn't make it science I am saying that this is very different than past scientific methods. Most science in the past was observe first then study what was observed.

Quantum mechanics is idea-equation which is not proof of anything.

I would love to hear a conversation between a stockbroker of the 90's and a quantum physicist: "you mean you jack off to equations too and can rig the numbers to say whatever you want them to say"

We live in a very religious world and gullible world where one can NEVER see an alternate universe but by an equation can say "hey look it's an alternate universe" are people really that stupid?

Oh yeah and how exactly is an equation proof of the existence of something anymore than the bible is proof of the existence of a god? sounds like the same bullshit.

QM is a model of how reality works. It is based on observed behavior and makes the most accurate predictions of any science.

The Bible doesn't.


name one thing that was observed in quantum mechanics that resulted in an accurate prediction.....
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30-09-2012, 08:19 AM
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of al
(30-09-2012 08:09 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(30-09-2012 07:57 AM)Chas Wrote:  QM is a model of how reality works. It is based on observed behavior and makes the most accurate predictions of any science.

The Bible doesn't.


name one thing that was observed in quantum mechanics that resulted in an accurate prediction.....

I swear she's trolling.
1. Observations do not "result" in predictions. Predictions "predict" observations.
2. Did she observe anything colored today ? If so, QM is verified, yet again.

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30-09-2012, 10:53 AM
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of al
(30-09-2012 08:09 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(30-09-2012 07:57 AM)Chas Wrote:  QM is a model of how reality works. It is based on observed behavior and makes the most accurate predictions of any science.

The Bible doesn't.


name one thing that was observed in quantum mechanics that resulted in an accurate prediction.....

Its prediction of the interaction strength between an electron and a magnetic field has been experimentally confirmed to a precision of two parts in 1,000,000,000,000.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-09-2012, 11:12 AM
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of al
(30-09-2012 08:19 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(30-09-2012 08:09 AM)I and I Wrote:  name one thing that was observed in quantum mechanics that resulted in an accurate prediction.....

I swear she's trolling.
1. Observations do not "result" in predictions. Predictions "predict" observations.
2. Did she observe anything colored today ? If so, QM is verified, yet again.

How does observing color verify quantum mechanics?
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30-09-2012, 11:28 AM
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of al
(30-09-2012 11:12 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(30-09-2012 08:19 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I swear she's trolling.
1. Observations do not "result" in predictions. Predictions "predict" observations.
2. Did she observe anything colored today ? If so, QM is verified, yet again.

How does observing color verify quantum mechanics?

Weeping

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30-09-2012, 02:56 PM
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of al
(30-09-2012 11:28 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(30-09-2012 11:12 AM)I and I Wrote:  How does observing color verify quantum mechanics?

Weeping


Where does the energy of photons come from?
What is the quantum mechanism of how and why photons get their energy from the very electron that emits them?

Is QM capable of establishing electron-photon momentum relation (equation) ---- the relation in momentum between electron and its emitting photon?

Does QM have a way to calculate the wavelength of photons from the wavelength of the electron emitting those photons?

Drinking Beverage
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30-09-2012, 03:07 PM
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of al
(30-09-2012 02:56 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(30-09-2012 11:28 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Weeping


Where does the energy of photons come from?
E=mc²
Quote:What is the quantum mechanism of how and why photons get their energy from the very electron that emits them?
E=mc²
Quote:Is QM capable of establishing electron-photon momentum relation (equation) ---- the relation in momentum between electron and its emitting photon?
E=mc²
Quote:Does QM have a way to calculate the wavelength of photons from the wavelength of the electron emitting those photons?
E=mc²
Quote:Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-10-2012, 09:00 AM
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of al
Quantum mechanics[1], and specifically the standard model[2] began to be developed after the observations of the double slit experiment first performed in 1909[3]. Various forms of this experiment allowed a theory to be developed, tested, and refined over time. Many other experiment with light have developed the overall theory and many of those experiments have been reproduced with electrons or other particles. We have plenty of experimental data and now many commercial applications quantum tunnelling and the like[4]. Another important set of experiments can be found in particle collision experiments. By colliding high energy particles within bubble chambers[5] or equivalent apparatus we are able to see the products of the collision as they from bubbles long their trajectories away from the point of the collision. The experiments allow us to directly observe many fundamental particles and to see which particles decompose into which, culminating recently in experiments at the Large Hadron Collider[6] that appear to confirm the existence of the Higgs Boson.

Quantum mechanics have had about a hundred years of active development and experimentation, and is hardly a flash in the pan or merely equations. As I said it may be wrong in fundamental ways, but it provides us excellent proven predictive power - and that's what we require to call something science.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mechanics
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Model
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment
[4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunnelling
[5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_chamber
[6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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03-10-2012, 10:46 AM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2012 10:49 AM by kim.)
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of al
(30-09-2012 02:56 PM)I and I Wrote:  Where does the energy of photons come from?
What is the quantum mechanism of how and why photons get their energy from the very electron that emits them?

Is QM capable of establishing electron-photon momentum relation (equation) ---- the relation in momentum between electron and its emitting photon?

Does QM have a way to calculate the wavelength of photons from the wavelength of the electron emitting those photons?

Drinking Beverage

It might help to understand that a photon is the basic unit of both light and the electromagnetic force. Photons are unique in that they have properties of a wave as well as of a particle. This means that it can be refracted by a lens or (polarization- up/down/left/right) interfere with other waves, but it can also be detected when analyzed as a particle.

Photons are unusual particles in that they have no mass. They also don't have an electric charge, and they do not spontaneously decay. In empty space, photons move at the speed of light; their energy are determined only by frequency. The speed of a photon can also slow down as it passes through materials other than empty space (like a vacuum).

Photons are emitted when a charged particle is accelerated, or when a molecule, atom or nucleus goes from one energy state to another, or are released when a particle and its antiparticle are destroyed.

An example of a particle and its antiparticle is an electron (particle) and the positron (antiparticle). When these two subatomic particles encounter each other, both are nullified and often photons are released.

It might be easier to consider that photons come from electrons that fall from one energy level to another.

***
The thing about light... anything with no mass always travels at the speed of light. But since the speed-of-light is always the speed-of-light to everyone, there’s no way for these objects to ever be stationary, unlike stuff with mass. Light and ordinary matter are very different, and the laws that govern them are just as different.

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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04-10-2012, 10:22 AM
RE: Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of al
(03-10-2012 10:46 AM)kim Wrote:  
(30-09-2012 02:56 PM)I and I Wrote:  Where does the energy of photons come from?
What is the quantum mechanism of how and why photons get their energy from the very electron that emits them?

Is QM capable of establishing electron-photon momentum relation (equation) ---- the relation in momentum between electron and its emitting photon?

Does QM have a way to calculate the wavelength of photons from the wavelength of the electron emitting those photons?

Drinking Beverage

It might help to understand that a photon is the basic unit of both light and the electromagnetic force. Photons are unique in that they have properties of a wave as well as of a particle. This means that it can be refracted by a lens or (polarization- up/down/left/right) interfere with other waves, but it can also be detected when analyzed as a particle.

Photons are unusual particles in that they have no mass. They also don't have an electric charge, and they do not spontaneously decay. In empty space, photons move at the speed of light; their energy are determined only by frequency. The speed of a photon can also slow down as it passes through materials other than empty space (like a vacuum).

Photons are emitted when a charged particle is accelerated, or when a molecule, atom or nucleus goes from one energy state to another, or are released when a particle and its antiparticle are destroyed.

An example of a particle and its antiparticle is an electron (particle) and the positron (antiparticle). When these two subatomic particles encounter each other, both are nullified and often photons are released.

It might be easier to consider that photons come from electrons that fall from one energy level to another.

***
The thing about light... anything with no mass always travels at the speed of light. But since the speed-of-light is always the speed-of-light to everyone, there’s no way for these objects to ever be stationary, unlike stuff with mass. Light and ordinary matter are very different, and the laws that govern them are just as different.

a wave of what? particles? Why is a wave of something classified as different then what is in the wave?
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