Is Reality.... A Lie?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
21-03-2012, 12:10 AM
RE: Is Reality.... A Lie?
(20-03-2012 11:35 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  I've always asked this since learning about our five sense's in grade school. I always compared it to mental illness. If others around me were experiencing it and reflecting that in their experience then it was true. But then the matrix came out, plus I realized my friends and I 'felt' ghosts when we'd tell ghost stories, so our senses are subjective. At first I was freaked out. I asked my science teacher how to validate reality. He explained how ultimately we can't know for certain. Eventually I accepted that it doesn't matter because it is beyond control or grasping (at this point) so I grew apathetic. Smile

I think m'lady is on to something. After all, microscopes, and telescoopes, (among MANY other technologies), are necessary because we are "zipped" up in 5 senses, with very small detection ranges. I think Marcus Chown is fun. He throws out the idea that we are "digital" holograms projected from the "surface" of the universe...many many articles, and videos. He often writes for New Scientist.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Sent by Jebus to put the stud back in Bible Study. "I believe Mr. Peanut is the Messiah" -- onlinebiker
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
21-03-2012, 05:42 PM
RE: Is Reality.... A Lie?
(20-03-2012 11:35 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  I've always asked this since learning about our five sense's in grade school. I always compared it to mental illness. If others around me were experiencing it and reflecting that in their experience then it was true. But then the matrix came out, plus I realized my friends and I 'felt' ghosts when we'd tell ghost stories, so our senses are subjective. At first I was freaked out. I asked my science teacher how to validate reality. He explained how ultimately we can't know for certain. Eventually I accepted that it doesn't matter because it is beyond control or grasping (at this point) so I grew apathetic. Smile

Yes you were such an intellectual philosopher at the age of 5....

COUGH
BS
COUGH
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-03-2012, 06:00 PM
RE: Is Reality.... A Lie?
(21-03-2012 05:42 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  
(20-03-2012 11:35 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  I've always asked this since learning about our five sense's in grade school. I always compared it to mental illness. If others around me were experiencing it and reflecting that in their experience then it was true. But then the matrix came out, plus I realized my friends and I 'felt' ghosts when we'd tell ghost stories, so our senses are subjective. At first I was freaked out. I asked my science teacher how to validate reality. He explained how ultimately we can't know for certain. Eventually I accepted that it doesn't matter because it is beyond control or grasping (at this point) so I grew apathetic. Smile

Yes you were such an intellectual philosopher at the age of 5....

COUGH
BS
COUGH

You should actually read a post before making a dumb ass comment.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-03-2012, 09:10 AM
RE: Is Reality.... A Lie?
Is illusion.... truth? ;D

[Image: Untitled-2.png?_subject_uid=322943157&am...Y7Dzq4lJog]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Logica Humano's post
22-03-2012, 09:20 AM
RE: Is Reality.... A Lie?
Technically i think the answer might be yes.
Everything we see is not as we see it. It's a trick of the senses. A way for our bodies to make sense of the data we receive so that we can survive in the world.
I imagine that if there are creatures lurking within the other dimensions they would "see" differently.
But most likely to the same end result.
Just like how a dog sees differently than us but he still can't walk through walls or fly. He still follows the same laws.

When I was a kid the one thing that always confused me was why we can't walk through walls. Sounds stupid I know.
But I'd read somewhere that we are all built of the same basic components. Me, and a wall share the same materials at the most basic level. That there were tiny little molecules all interacting with one another to hold us together, and that there might be a certain frequency of sound that could actually cause us to vibrate into oblivion. But on that same level of thought, if we could find a way to make our molecules talk to the molecules making up the wall, we could get them to vibrate past one another.
This stuck in my head for years, and I was like the kid who watches star wars and spends the next few years positive they can use a force to move things if only they can figure out how to access the force.
I don't even remember where I read any of that. Knowing me it was probably a comic book. Though I was pretty into science my whole life and spent a lot of time reading Popular Science and shit like that. Also PMK for kids. Not just because of Elisha Cuthbert either... though Humina humina...

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes lucradis's post
22-03-2012, 07:13 PM (This post was last modified: 22-03-2012 08:12 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Is Reality.... A Lie?
(20-03-2012 11:35 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  Eventually I accepted that it doesn't matter because it is beyond control or grasping (at this point) so I grew apathetic. Smile

I mean, what else you gonna do?

(22-03-2012 09:10 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Is illusion.... truth? ;D

No. Truth only exists in artificial formal systems. We made truth up. We don't find ourselves in a formal system. (Whether or not we find ourselves in an artificial system is a different question. Wink) There is no truth "out here", there are only interpretations, some more reasonable than others.

(21-03-2012 05:42 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  
(20-03-2012 11:35 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  I've always asked this since learning about our five sense's in grade school. I always compared it to mental illness. If others around me were experiencing it and reflecting that in their experience then it was true. But then the matrix came out, plus I realized my friends and I 'felt' ghosts when we'd tell ghost stories, so our senses are subjective. At first I was freaked out. I asked my science teacher how to validate reality. He explained how ultimately we can't know for certain. Eventually I accepted that it doesn't matter because it is beyond control or grasping (at this point) so I grew apathetic. Smile

Yes you were such an intellectual philosopher at the age of 5....

COUGH
BS
COUGH

You wanna just keep being a little prick or are you ready for the dohyō with a Yokozuna metaphycisist?




Just because I'm an atheist doesn't mean there aren't people who should pray for their sorry ass to be saved.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-03-2012, 09:38 PM (This post was last modified: 22-03-2012 09:46 PM by craniumonempty.)
RE: Is Reality.... A Lie?
I'm not fully colorblind, but I'm considered to be by the government, because I can't pass their stupid tests. You know that dot test thing. yeah, out of about 50 of those things, I could only see one. I was excited when I saw it, because before that I thought everyone was just fucking with me that there was something in it. Then I saw that first one and thought, "oh, there is something there, this is easy!" Yeah, that was it. Then they shined lights of I think yellow, blue, and red. I barely remember, because all I saw were a bunch of white lights shining. I had to guess after a while, because the person testing was getting impatient. I didn't even guess correctly. How the hell do you people see that shit?

Depth perception is another problem. I don't really see out of my left eye. Well, unless I close my right eye, but then even with the glasses it's really hard to see anything. I use my left eye for peripheral vision, but that's about it. I usually tell distance by angles, so when I can't tell the angle, then I screw things up. I tend to be extra clumsy because of it.

I have numb fingers and toes due to frost nip that deadened the cells. They look normal, but in certain places I can't feel a thing. There is one patch up the side of my right leg that I can't feel at all. I've burnt my hands a few times because I didn't react like I should have. I also have psoriasis that is getting pretty bad that hurt my skin sensory. Not so much making it so I can't feel, but there are sharp little pains every so often that I ignore, so when something happens I don't notice like I should. You could probably poke me with an icepick a few times before I started to notice... unless it was on my face or a few other spots.

I have ADHD or something. There is this odd kind of obsession that I have that is coupled with it, so basically I'm all over the place at times, or I'm so focused I don't notice or do anything else. It's good when I'm working, because often the focus can become work. My wife says that when I'm on the computer there could be a fire around me and I wouldn't notice. I think she says that when she can't get my attention, but apparently I'm pretty bad at times. I do know that I can focus out pain. I've broken a few things in life and all I have to do is think of something and it goes away. The problem is that I forget also, so like when I broke my foot, I made it worse by walking on it (well, stepping and falling), because I forgot it was broken. Then I remembered it was broken and was in a hell of a lot of pain for a little.

I'm forgetful. In the Marine Corps it was very obvious, because I could get instant feedback of what was happening. One time, I was turning to ask the Marine on duty something and must have said something that indicated that I didn't know or understand something. After a little confusion on his part, I realized that I must have been talking to someone not too long before and received an order to do something. I went to the person and asked for clarification... they didn't quite catch that I didn't even know that I had spoken to them except through someone else. As far as I know, my memory isn't always that way. Most of the time, I can recall once there is a trigger, but there are moments that are completely lost.

Beyond all of that, the world still seems real enough to me, but you are correct that we should question everything.

The basics... when you strip everything away leave you with nothing you can build up on. At the very beginning you have no choice, but to make an assumption. Some call it an a priori or something, but it's an assumption. You have Descartes and most that start with their own existence being the first point. I've recently revisited this and wondered if one can start out without the assumption that they exist first. I don't think you can, because the data has to go somewhere, but I've been working that over for a little in my head. I keep wanting to start with perception, but think even that is probably a little too complex, but it's very possible that self and perception might both have to be assumptions to continue further. I'm thinking there is another way, but I just don't see it yet...

Either way, once you have the most basic assumptions. The ones you can't avoid, then you build up everything on that and if you feel like it, revisit the assumptions and see if they still stand. If they are consistent and fit everything built on top of them. You don't have to assume that your perception is always true, just that some of your perceptions are true some of the time...

I can't think of where else you would start if you start with nothing. Can you start outside yourself when you haven't even build your own self up first? It's easy to say that when you already accept that you exist already, so even then you can't get around those basic assumptions.

The only way you can somewhat prove them is to oppose them. If you don't exist, then what? Can you build from there without that? What if none of your perceptions are correct? What then? Everything is a product of yourself? Everything you think you experience is really you? ... I've met people like that on the philosophy forums. How do you try to convince other people they are you... and that you are them? Especially if you are supposed to be the same people? Who are you really trying to convince? The guy didn't seem to get the joke. It was funny to me, but he was supposed to be me.

Defy gravity... stand up. Drinking Beverage
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes craniumonempty's post
23-03-2012, 02:26 AM
RE: Is Reality.... A Lie?
(22-03-2012 09:20 AM)lucradis Wrote:  Technically i think the answer might be yes.
Everything we see is not as we see it. It's a trick of the senses. A way for our bodies to make sense of the data we receive so that we can survive in the world.
I imagine that if there are creatures lurking within the other dimensions they would "see" differently.
But most likely to the same end result.
Just like how a dog sees differently than us but he still can't walk through walls or fly. He still follows the same laws.

When I was a kid the one thing that always confused me was why we can't walk through walls. Sounds stupid I know.
But I'd read somewhere that we are all built of the same basic components. Me, and a wall share the same materials at the most basic level. That there were tiny little molecules all interacting with one another to hold us together, and that there might be a certain frequency of sound that could actually cause us to vibrate into oblivion. But on that same level of thought, if we could find a way to make our molecules talk to the molecules making up the wall, we could get them to vibrate past one another.
This stuck in my head for years, and I was like the kid who watches star wars and spends the next few years positive they can use a force to move things if only they can figure out how to access the force.
I don't even remember where I read any of that. Knowing me it was probably a comic book. Though I was pretty into science my whole life and spent a lot of time reading Popular Science and shit like that. Also PMK for kids. Not just because of Elisha Cuthbert either... though Humina humina...

Please please tell me you tried to put your fist through walls and bend metal spoons?? Big Grin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like LadyJane's post
23-03-2012, 05:12 AM
RE: Is Reality.... A Lie?
(15-03-2012 10:05 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(15-03-2012 10:00 PM)Thomas Wrote:  The short answer is that if you cannot detect that your senses are deceiving you then you have no basis for questioning the possibility of deceit.

Granted. But I have yet to find a sound basis for logically concluding that I even am. Let alone you. ... Logic is a tool, not a God.

Descartes gave us, "I think therefore I am". His argument is that we must exist at least in the mind because we can question our existence. Who is doing the questioning? It must be me, therefore I exist.

He could not prove that anyone else existed outside of his own mind.
Existentialists and Empiricists later dismissed Descartes skepticism regarding the existence of others using the argument at the deception of the senses must be detected or we must assume we are not deceived. We don’t need to waste time (per the Existentialists) wondering about things that we can neither prove nor disprove. The existence of god is another time waster for the existentialist. Just say simply “no proof” and move on to more important matters like “how do we discover our authentic selves?”

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-03-2012, 05:22 AM
RE: Is Reality.... A Lie?
(23-03-2012 05:12 AM)Thomas Wrote:  
(15-03-2012 10:05 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(15-03-2012 10:00 PM)Thomas Wrote:  The short answer is that if you cannot detect that your senses are deceiving you then you have no basis for questioning the possibility of deceit.

Granted. But I have yet to find a sound basis for logically concluding that I even am. Let alone you. ... Logic is a tool, not a God.

Descartes gave us, "I think therefore I am". His argument is that we must exist at least in the mind because we can question our existence. Who is doing the questioning? It must be me, therefore I exist.

He could not prove that anyone else existed outside of his own mind.
Existentialists and Empiricists later dismissed Descartes skepticism regarding the existence of others using the argument at the deception of the senses must be detected or we must assume we are not deceived. We don’t need to waste time (per the Existentialists) wondering about things that we can neither prove nor disprove. The existence of god is another time waster for the existentialist. Just say simply “no proof” and move on to more important matters like “how do we discover our authentic selves?”

But how do we know things that question its own existence exist? Descartes missed a premiss in his reasoning, A=things that think exist, B=I think C=therefore I exist... the first premiss is missing and it's not proved so Descartes was wrong!!!

that said, I'm going to ride my unicorn to the edge of the universe Big Grin

[Image: sigvacachica.png]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: