Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
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09-10-2014, 05:49 PM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
(09-10-2014 06:26 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  I've been talking about how I came across the fact that there is a consensus. A majority of experts in the field of ancient history accept that Jesus did exist.

Anonymous66, in the field of theology the consensus of the experts seems to be that there is a god yet you label yourself an atheist. Why should anybody take you seriously if you are going against what the consensus of experts agree on?
Huh

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09-10-2014, 08:08 PM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
(09-10-2014 03:57 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(09-10-2014 06:59 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Wrong.
More intellectual dishonesty.
No one said they "need" Carrier.
All I asked is for YOU to discuss ONE of his points.
You can't. You know NOTHING of the actually issues.
All you can do is make your ad populum and argument from authority.
Obviously you don't even KNOW what he even discusses.
Now I think you never even really listened to one of his lectures.

But what you have done by demonstrating you are unable to discuss the issues at hand, is that YOU NEED your pathetic list of (mostly) religious "experts".

BTW, I ran your web-site list through the plagiarism software I have access to in my department out East.
This is where you got it, and you never once gave credit to the Wiki author of this bibliography. Here is where you copy/pasted it from, as though it were your own work :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

"Robert M. Price (a former fundamentalist apologist turned atheist who says the existence of Jesus cannot be ruled out, but is less probable than non-existence) agrees that this perspective runs against the views of the majority of scholars: Robert M. Price "Jesus at the Vanishing Point" in The Historical Jesus: Five Views edited by James K. Beilby & Paul Rhodes Eddy, 2009 InterVarsity, ISBN 028106329X page 61
Michael Grant (a classicist) states that "In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary." in Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels by Michael Grant 2004 ISBN 1898799881 page 200
Richard A. Burridge states: "There are those who argue that Jesus is a figment of the Church’s imagination, that there never was a Jesus at all. I have to say that I do not know any respectable critical scholar who says that any more." in Jesus Now and Then by Richard A. Burridge and Graham Gould (Apr 1, 2004) ISBN 0802809774 page 34
Jesus Remembered by James D. G. Dunn 2003 ISBN 0-8028-3931-2 page 339 states of baptism and crucifixion that these "two facts in the life of Jesus command almost universal assent".
Prophet and Teacher: An Introduction to the Historical Jesus by William R. Herzog (Jul 4, 2005) ISBN 0664225284 pages 1–6
Crossan, John Dominic (1995). Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography. HarperOne. p. 145. ISBN 0-06-061662-8. "That he was crucified is as sure as anything historical can ever be, since both Josephus and Tacitus ... agree with the Christian accounts on at least that basic fact."
Akenson, Donald (1998). Surpassing wonder: the invention of the Bible and the Talmuds. University of Chicago Press. pp. 539–555. ISBN 978-0-226-01073-1. Retrieved Jan 8, 2011. "... The point I shall argue below is that, the agreed evidentiary practices of the historians of Yeshua, despite their best efforts, have not been those of sound historical practice ..."
Robert E. Van Voorst Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence Eerdmans Publishing, 2000. ISBN 0-8028-4368-9 p. 16, Referring to G.A. Wells: "The nonhistoricity thesis has always been controversial, and it has consistently failed to convince scholars of many disciplines and religious creeds... Biblical scholars and classical historians now regard it as effectively refuted"
The Cambridge companion to Jesus by Markus N. A. Bockmuehl 2001 Cambridge University Press ISBN 978-0-521-79678-1 pages 123–124. Page 124 state that the "farfetched theories that Jesus' existence was a Christian invention are highly implausible."
Powell, Mark Allan (1998). Jesus as a figure in history: how modern historians view the man from Galilee. Louisville, KY: Westminster John Knox Press. p. 168. ISBN 978-0-664-25703-3.
Jesus in history, thought, and culture: an encyclopedia, Volume 1 by James Leslie Houlden 2003 ISBN 1-57607-856-6-page 660
Van Voorst (2000) p. 14
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/historicity
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defini...istoricity
Wandersee, J. H. (1992), The historicality of cognition: Implications for science education research. J. Res. Sci. Teach., 29: 423–434. doi: 10.1002/tea.3660290409
Harre, R., & Moghaddam, F.M. (2006). Historicity, social psychology, and change. In Rockmore, T. & Margolis, J. (Eds.), History, historicity, and science (pp. 94–120). London: Ashgate Publishing Limited., [1]
William J. Hamblin, professor of history at Brigham Young University. Two part arti " ... etc

I likes when you swing the knowledge stick Yes

That's actually quite a compliment coming from you ... but, ya know it hit me late this afternoon ... what a dolt I am. I am SO gullible. He ACTUALLY didn't read ANY of the authors or texts he cited, at all. He just copied that list from Wiki. I never really thought about it, but the unwillingness to even begin to discuss ANY of the issues, and there are some interesting ones (like why would a new cult start off by describing it's internal discord in Acts, or the fact that when Peter is talking to the Jews about killing Jesus they seem to have no clue or memory of what he's even talking about), on the other hand, the speeches of Peter in Acts 2 clearly reflect a much much later, far more developed "theology", they read like a Professor of (something ? .... who has it all figured out.... THAT soon ???) ... not a fisherman. I think not. It reeks of deception.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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09-10-2014, 08:28 PM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
Who's Richard Carrier? Does he make HVAC units 'cause I got one of his at 15 SEER and it's pretty good.

#sigh
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09-10-2014, 08:29 PM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
(09-10-2014 08:28 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Who's Richard Carrier? Does he make HVAC units 'cause I got one of his at 15 SEER and it's pretty good.

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09-10-2014, 08:30 PM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
(09-10-2014 08:28 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Who's Richard Carrier? Does he make HVAC units 'cause I got one of his at 15 SEER and it's pretty good.

That's him. Yes

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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09-10-2014, 08:32 PM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
I didn't know we each got to have our own expert.

When do I get mine?

Why am I allowed only one?

Sadcryface

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09-10-2014, 08:56 PM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
[Image: carrier.jpg]

Lumi? Is that you? 'Cause that looks like you. Big Grin

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10-10-2014, 06:45 AM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
(09-10-2014 07:34 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Im really getting scared now.. you really did get that info from Wikipedia.. and the sources are valid.
^is that what you meant to say?

Have you called around to universities yet? You may want to check to see if you know what you're talking about..

there really is a consensus.. virtually all experts in the field of ancient history accept that Jesus is historical in nature.
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10-10-2014, 06:48 AM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
(10-10-2014 06:45 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  
(09-10-2014 07:34 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Im really getting scared now.. you really did get that info from Wikipedia.. and the sources are valid.
^is that what you meant to say?

Have you called around to universities yet? You may want to check to see if you know what you're talking about..

there really is a consensus.. virtually all experts in the field of ancient history accept that Jesus is historical in nature.

BuckyBall destroyed your argument. You seem emotionally unable to come to terms with that. Maybe you're not mature enough for the internet.
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10-10-2014, 06:49 AM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
(09-10-2014 08:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(09-10-2014 03:57 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I likes when you swing the knowledge stick Yes

That's actually quite a compliment coming from you ... but, ya know it hit me late this afternoon ... what a dolt I am. I am SO gullible. He ACTUALLY didn't read ANY of the authors or texts he cited, at all. He just copied that list from Wiki. I never really thought about it, but the unwillingness to even begin to discuss ANY of the issues, and there are some interesting ones (like why would a new cult start off by describing it's internal discord in Acts, or the fact that when Peter is talking to the Jews about killing Jesus they seem to have no clue or memory of what he's even talking about), on the other hand, the speeches of Peter in Acts 2 clearly reflect a much much later, far more developed "theology", they read like a Professor of (something ? .... who has it all figured out.... THAT soon ???) ... not a fisherman. I think not. It reeks of deception.

Hey Bucky...... try to stay with me here.. I know I'm shaking up your worldview and all.

but, this is about whether or not a vast majority (a consensus) of experts in the field of ancient history accept that Jesus was a person in history...

Why is that so hard for you to accept? what would convince you?

You appear to be too scared to actually check (by calling around to different colleges)

why is that?
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