Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
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10-10-2014, 06:51 AM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
(10-10-2014 06:48 AM)Rik Wrote:  I dont' know how to form a rational argument
^I think this is what you meant to say.

So, do the experts agree that Jesus was historical in nature? or don't they?

That IS the question.. isn't it?
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10-10-2014, 06:52 AM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
(09-10-2014 08:42 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  anonymous:
I don't think anyone here treats Carrier in any sense as an unquestionable authority. Some here take his arguments seriously. I think most take his arguments with a significant grain of salt, despite his credentials and his publication record. Both of these groups expect more from the anti-Carrier camp than "wah wah wah he disagrees with the consensus of christian scholars. wah wah wah he's not credible because he disagrees with my preconceptions and my faith".

If you wish to convince people that Carrier is getting things wrong, deal with his claims and his arguments. If you think Carrier is of no real importance, say so and move on. All you are achieving by fixating on him without addressing his arguments is lending them credibility by contrast with your argumentation.

So... tell me in your own words.. What is his BEST argument? For Jesus being a myth.
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10-10-2014, 06:54 AM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
(10-10-2014 06:49 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  
(09-10-2014 08:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  That's actually quite a compliment coming from you ... but, ya know it hit me late this afternoon ... what a dolt I am. I am SO gullible. He ACTUALLY didn't read ANY of the authors or texts he cited, at all. He just copied that list from Wiki. I never really thought about it, but the unwillingness to even begin to discuss ANY of the issues, and there are some interesting ones (like why would a new cult start off by describing it's internal discord in Acts, or the fact that when Peter is talking to the Jews about killing Jesus they seem to have no clue or memory of what he's even talking about), on the other hand, the speeches of Peter in Acts 2 clearly reflect a much much later, far more developed "theology", they read like a Professor of (something ? .... who has it all figured out.... THAT soon ???) ... not a fisherman. I think not. It reeks of deception.

Hey Bucky...... try to stay with me here.. I know I'm shaking up your worldview and all.

but, this is about whether or not a vast majority (a consensus) of experts in the field of ancient history accept that Jesus was a person in history...

Why is that so hard for you to accept? what would convince you?

You appear to be too scared to actually check (by calling around to different colleges)

why is that?

Pompenous inflated sense of arguments worth..

Something you've stated repeatedly, we get your opinion

Now you've at least asked a decent logical question on the topic for once... here's a hint for what a person would likely say. More contextual evidence outside of the Bible's texts which don't validate history to a high accuracy. Mentions that Christians believed in Jesus in the 1st century is about the best we have as "evidence" for him.

This appeal to colleges argument is so flawed and randomly out of norm I wouldn't even know what to say.

Here's a better question... WHY do YOU care if atheists think Jesus exists or not. YOU are continuously bringing this up as some flaw or pattern. It's not some issue of other people when it's a hot topic you can't overcome to realize it doesn't matter either way. So why would an atheist such as yourself care so much what other atheists think upon this subject?
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10-10-2014, 06:54 AM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
(10-10-2014 06:51 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  
(10-10-2014 06:48 AM)Rik Wrote:  I dont' know how to form a rational argument
^I think this is what you meant to say.

So, do the experts agree that Jesus was historical in nature? or don't they?

That IS the question.. isn't it?

You are the stupidest troll I have ever encountered.

See you later "The Thinking Atheist" - you have not put any thought into what you allow to go on here.
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10-10-2014, 06:55 AM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
(09-10-2014 05:49 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(09-10-2014 06:26 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  I've been talking about how I came across the fact that there is a consensus. A majority of experts in the field of ancient history accept that Jesus did exist.

Anonymous66, in the field of theology the consensus of the experts seems to be that there is a god yet you label yourself an atheist. Why should anybody take you seriously if you are going against what the consensus of experts agree on?
Huh

I'm assuming we all agree that the study of ancient history is a legitimate field of study....

If you don't agree with that premise.. then we don't have much to talk about.
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10-10-2014, 06:57 AM (This post was last modified: 10-10-2014 07:01 AM by anonymous66.)
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
(10-10-2014 06:54 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(10-10-2014 06:49 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  Hey Bucky...... try to stay with me here.. I know I'm shaking up your worldview and all.

but, this is about whether or not a vast majority (a consensus) of experts in the field of ancient history accept that Jesus was a person in history...

Why is that so hard for you to accept? what would convince you?

You appear to be too scared to actually check (by calling around to different colleges)

why is that?

Pompenous inflated sense of arguments worth..

Something you've stated repeatedly, we get your opinion

Now you've at least asked a decent logical question on the topic for once... here's a hint for what a person would likely say. More contextual evidence outside of the Bible's texts which don't validate history to a high accuracy. Mentions that Christians believed in Jesus in the 1st century is about the best we have as "evidence" for him.

This appeal to colleges argument is so flawed and randomly out of norm I wouldn't even know what to say.

Here's a better question... WHY do YOU care if atheists think Jesus exists or not. YOU are continuously bringing this up as some flaw or pattern. It's not some issue of other people when it's a hot topic you can't overcome to realize it doesn't matter either way. So why would an atheist such as yourself care so much what other atheists think upon this subject?
I grew up in a YEC church.... I don't like seeing the same mentality among atheists (we know our experts are right, even though they disagree with an accepted field of study) that I saw in my YEC church.
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10-10-2014, 07:00 AM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
(10-10-2014 06:57 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  
(10-10-2014 06:54 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Pompenous inflated sense of arguments worth..

Something you've stated repeatedly, we get your opinion

Now you've at least asked a decent logical question on the topic for once... here's a hint for what a person would likely say. More contextual evidence outside of the Bible's texts which don't validate history to a high accuracy. Mentions that Christians believed in Jesus in the 1st century is about the best we have as "evidence" for him.

This appeal to colleges argument is so flawed and randomly out of norm I wouldn't even know what to say.

Here's a better question... WHY do YOU care if atheists think Jesus exists or not. YOU are continuously bringing this up as some flaw or pattern. It's not some issue of other people when it's a hot topic you can't overcome to realize it doesn't matter either way. So why would an atheist such as yourself care so much what other atheists think upon this subject?
I grew up in a YEC church.... I don't like seeing the same mentality among atheists (we know our experts are right, even though they disagree with an accepted field of study) that I saw in my YEC church.

Resorting to repeat phrases? You don't want to not be considered a troll anymore I guess since it's obvious you are.

Here's a thing, you're the one ignoring information in front of you on what really is happening and being believed by atheists. There's just some non existent idea of "we think our experts that are different are right" that you're hyping up despite the evidence it's not what the positions are.

Convince me of what? You're too stupid to understand your arguing against people who don't disagree with you on things you are arguing... because you're being blinded by some false perception you are putting up on other people.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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10-10-2014, 07:02 AM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
(10-10-2014 07:00 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(10-10-2014 06:57 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  I grew up in a YEC church.... I don't like seeing the same mentality among atheists (we know our experts are right, even though they disagree with an accepted field of study) that I saw in my YEC church.

Resorting to repeat phrases? You don't want to not be considered a troll anymore I guess since it's obvious you are.

Here's a thing, you're the one ignoring information in front of you on what really is happening and being believed by atheists. There's just some non existent idea of "we think our experts that are different are right" that you're hyping up despite the evidence it's not what the positions are.

Convince me of what? You're too stupid to understand your arguing against people who don't disagree with you on things you are arguing... because you're being blinded by some false perception you are putting up on other people.

I honestly do not know how to convince you that there is a consensus among the experts in the field of ancient history... you reject the references from the wiki article.. I don't know how else to convince you. you're fighting again reality.. and you don't even realize it.

doesn't calling different secular colleges make sense to you? call as many as you like. ask them if there is a consensus
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10-10-2014, 07:04 AM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
Can I double neg rep??

I think Anon here might just be a bot now. All he is doing is repeating the same stock responses and not even reading the posts of what is said.

No, as someone who has been to several colleges; calling a college to ask if there is an consensus doesn't seem like something a rational person would expect to accomplish anything.. other than make yourself look like a lunatic.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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10-10-2014, 07:06 AM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
Clearly you never read the books you posted on your web site. This is not a subject non-religious scholars actually even talk about much, care about, or discuss or write about, (since you have no clue what IS taught and discussed in real academic circles). There is no "large body" of material (other than assertions by RELIGIOUS people) on the subject. There are a FEW books on the subject (which you never read). Your so-called (secular) "experts" on this subject are non-existent.
You're whistling in the wind here.
Maybe you could buy a clue ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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