Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
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10-10-2014, 07:06 AM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
I give up.. if I can't get you to accept that there is a consensus.. and I can't even get you to check... then there is literally nothing to talk about.
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10-10-2014, 07:07 AM (This post was last modified: 10-10-2014 07:12 AM by anonymous66.)
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
(10-10-2014 07:06 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Clearly you never read the books you posted on your web site. This is not a subject non-religious scholars actually even talk about much, care about, or discuss or write about, (since you have no clue what IS taught and discussed in real academic circles). There is no "large body" of material (other than assertions by RELIGIOUS people) on the subject. There are a FEW books on the subject (which you never read). Your so-called (secular) "experts" on this subject are non-existent.
You're whistling in the wind here.
Maybe you could buy a clue ?

and you won't check the assumptions you claim above because?

why? it would shake up your worldview too much? deal with it dude.. it's true.

I honestly do not know how to convince you that there is a consensus among the experts in the field of ancient history... you reject the references from the wiki article.. I don't know how else to convince you. you're fighting again reality.. and you don't even realize it.

doesn't calling different secular colleges make sense to you? call as many as you like. ask them if there is a consensus
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10-10-2014, 07:12 AM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
Did you not read Bucky's post? Did you not understand Bucky's post?

(09-10-2014 08:51 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_by_consensus

"I want to pause here and talk about this notion of consensus, and the rise of what has been called consensus science. I regard consensus science as an extremely pernicious development that ought to be stopped cold in its tracks. Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you're being had.

Let's be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus. Consensus is the business of politics. Science, on the contrary, requires only one investigator who happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world. In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus.

There is no such thing as consensus science. If it's consensus, it isn't science. If it's science, it isn't consensus. Period.”
― Michael Crichton


Without an actual discussion of, and evidence for the issues at hand, the premise of all this is dismissed. I care about evidence. Not consensus.

“The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widely spread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.”
― Bertrand Russell

“Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.”
― Leo Tolstoy, A Confession

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
― Mark Twain

(Hint to skeptics : look into Carrier's claims re: "Philo's Jesus" ... decide for your self. On the other hand his literary exposition of the myth template of the gospels is compelling, as are his questions concerning what would have been reasonable expectations of both Roman and Jewish authorities *if* any of it had actually happened.

Edit :
There is also an entire body of (liberal) "Christian" scholarship which does not take the gospels as "literally true".
http://www.amazon.com/Trouble-Resurrecti...1598150200
http://www.amazon.com/The-Power-Parable-...=pd_cp_b_2
Anything by John Shelby Spong

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-10-2014, 07:12 AM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
(10-10-2014 06:49 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  
(09-10-2014 08:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  That's actually quite a compliment coming from you ... but, ya know it hit me late this afternoon ... what a dolt I am. I am SO gullible. He ACTUALLY didn't read ANY of the authors or texts he cited, at all. He just copied that list from Wiki. I never really thought about it, but the unwillingness to even begin to discuss ANY of the issues, and there are some interesting ones (like why would a new cult start off by describing it's internal discord in Acts, or the fact that when Peter is talking to the Jews about killing Jesus they seem to have no clue or memory of what he's even talking about), on the other hand, the speeches of Peter in Acts 2 clearly reflect a much much later, far more developed "theology", they read like a Professor of (something ? .... who has it all figured out.... THAT soon ???) ... not a fisherman. I think not. It reeks of deception.

Hey Bucky...... try to stay with me here.. I know I'm shaking up your worldview and all.

but, this is about whether or not a vast majority (a consensus) of experts in the field of ancient history accept that Jesus was a person in history...

Why is that so hard for you to accept? what would convince you?

You appear to be too scared to actually check (by calling around to different colleges)

why is that?

Oh really and do your work for you ? YOU said there is a (non-existent) "consensus", and you want ME to do your poll for you. Thanks for admitting you have nothing but a copy-paste on your web site, by which you imply you actually READ the works in question. The fact is you have read NOTHING on the subject. You're "shaking" nothing (well maybe something, but let's not go into that). Weeping You're an intellectual mite. You want a poll, take a fucking poll. You talk as though you have one. You don't, and now you think I'm going to go get you one. Laughat

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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10-10-2014, 07:14 AM (This post was last modified: 10-10-2014 07:18 AM by anonymous66.)
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
(10-10-2014 07:12 AM)Chas Wrote:  Did you not read Bucky's post? Did you not understand Bucky's post?

(09-10-2014 08:51 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_by_consensus

"I want to pause here and talk about this notion of consensus, and the rise of what has been called consensus science. I regard consensus science as an extremely pernicious development that ought to be stopped cold in its tracks. Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you're being had.

Let's be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus. Consensus is the business of politics. Science, on the contrary, requires only one investigator who happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world. In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus.

There is no such thing as consensus science. If it's consensus, it isn't science. If it's science, it isn't consensus. Period.”
― Michael Crichton


Without an actual discussion of, and evidence for the issues at hand, the premise of all this is dismissed. I care about evidence. Not consensus.

“The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widely spread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.”
― Bertrand Russell

“Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.”
― Leo Tolstoy, A Confession

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
― Mark Twain

(Hint to skeptics : look into Carrier's claims re: "Philo's Jesus" ... decide for your self. On the other hand his literary exposition of the myth template of the gospels is compelling, as are his questions concerning what would have been reasonable expectations of both Roman and Jewish authorities *if* any of it had actually happened.

Edit :
There is also an entire body of (liberal) "Christian" scholarship which does not take the gospels as "literally true".
http://www.amazon.com/Trouble-Resurrecti...1598150200
http://www.amazon.com/The-Power-Parable-...=pd_cp_b_2
Anything by John Shelby Spong
sorry.. I must have missed that post....

So, you've changed your position... you were claiming that there was no consensus...
no you admit that (maybe?) there is one but it doesn't matter...(is that what you are saying? feel free to explain).

fine.. have it your way...

I'll keep accepting evolution (despite what the ID community has to say) I'll keep immunizing my child (despite what fringe "experts" have to say)... Ill keep hoping people realize that human caused global warming is happening...

and I'll keep showing that Richard Carrier is very similar to Stephen Meyer. it's just atheists instead of creationists
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10-10-2014, 07:15 AM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
(10-10-2014 07:07 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  
(10-10-2014 07:06 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Clearly you never read the books you posted on your web site. This is not a subject non-religious scholars actually even talk about much, care about, or discuss or write about, (since you have no clue what IS taught and discussed in real academic circles). There is no "large body" of material (other than assertions by RELIGIOUS people) on the subject. There are a FEW books on the subject (which you never read). Your so-called (secular) "experts" on this subject are non-existent.
You're whistling in the wind here.
Maybe you could buy a clue ?

and you won't check the assumptions you claim above because?

why? it would shake up your worldview too much? deal with it dude.. it's true.

I honestly do not know how to convince you that there is a consensus among the experts in the field of ancient history... you reject the references from the wiki article.. I don't know how else to convince you. you're fighting again reality.. and you don't even realize it.

doesn't calling different secular colleges make sense to you? call as many as you like. ask them if there is a consensus

They're BIASED religious people.
You wouldn't know an "expert" if one bit you on the ass.
Why are you totally unable to discuss the ISSUES and why do you keep HIDING behind "consensus" ? That is the question here.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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10-10-2014, 07:17 AM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
(10-10-2014 07:06 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  I give up.. if I can't get you to accept that there is a consensus.. and I can't even get you to check... then there is literally nothing to talk about.

Good.
You got nothing.
It's YOUR JOB to present evidence of non-biased REAL HISTORIANS. You haven't and you can't.

Go preach your faith in your preacher-men somewhere else.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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10-10-2014, 07:20 AM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
(10-10-2014 07:17 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I already told you. I'm too scared to check my assumptions.

^fixed that for you.
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10-10-2014, 07:20 AM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
(10-10-2014 07:15 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(10-10-2014 07:07 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  and you won't check the assumptions you claim above because?

why? it would shake up your worldview too much? deal with it dude.. it's true.

I honestly do not know how to convince you that there is a consensus among the experts in the field of ancient history... you reject the references from the wiki article.. I don't know how else to convince you. you're fighting again reality.. and you don't even realize it.

doesn't calling different secular colleges make sense to you? call as many as you like. ask them if there is a consensus

They're BIASED religious people.
You wouldn't know an "expert" if one bit you on the ass.
Why are you totally unable to discuss the ISSUES and why do you keep HIDING behind "consensus" ? That is the question here.

why would you call colleges with biased religious people in their history department? I'm starting to think some atheists are just as nutty as the Christians they mock so much.


why don't you call the colleges you trust? DUMBASS
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10-10-2014, 07:32 AM
RE: Is Richard Carrier Your Expert? Can You Explain?
(10-10-2014 07:06 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  I give up.. if I can't get you to accept that there is a consensus.. and I can't even get you to check... then there is literally nothing to talk about.

Good now get the fuck out, you lying asshole. We understand that consensus is not a determining factor in what is and is not the fucking truth.

Now fuck off and take your fallacies with you, you lying sack of prepubescent shit.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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