Is Sam Harris a scientist?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
10-03-2017, 01:29 PM (This post was last modified: 10-03-2017 01:34 PM by Heath_Tierney.)
RE: Is Sam Harris a scientist?
(10-03-2017 01:18 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(10-03-2017 12:58 PM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  Stephen Hawking has expressed similar warnings though he's not an AI specialist. Is he, too, making naive assumptions? Source: Stephen Hawking warns artificial intelligence could end mankind

Yes.

Let me get this straight, because I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly:

Two trained scientists (and many others), one of which is arguably the smartest man alive, have some concerns about AI. But you dismiss them because their main expertise is in a different area.

Have I got that right?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-03-2017, 01:37 PM
RE: Is Sam Harris a scientist?
(10-03-2017 01:29 PM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  
(10-03-2017 01:18 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  Yes.

Let me get this straight, because I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly:

Two trained scientists, one of which is arguably the smartest man alive, have some concerns about AI. But you dismiss them because their main expertise is in a different area.

Have I got that right?

Just because someone is outrageously smart, doesn't necessarily mean that automatically makes them the top expert, in every field, in all the world, that they don't have Ph.D.'s in.

If Sam Harris' comments on black holes were similar to what Hawking's had to say on the matter, I'd trust further convos Sam might have on Astrophysics! Not Engineering. Or hairdressing Tongue

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TheGulegon's post
10-03-2017, 01:40 PM
RE: Is Sam Harris a scientist?
(10-03-2017 12:45 PM)Billanja Wrote:  
(10-03-2017 12:26 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  So? That doesn't take away or mean his notions of thought and existence really is defined by

So what is the topic Harris is unqualified to talk about that he does so dishonestly according to you?

Why panic when you can panik? via da Tapatalk

What I have an issue with, regarding Sam Harris, is that he (indircetely) proclaims that his thoughts are "rational" and "reasonable" thoughts and not just (mere) opinions.

He also thinks that Noam Chomsky's take on us-american forgain policy isn't as accurate as his is, although Noam Chomsky is a well known expert regarding that topic. He even goes so far to throw what he calls "the liberal left" completely out of the window. Like as if they are not even worthy to have a conversation with. That I call arrogance.

Furthermore, I think that Sam Harris is merely expressing his opinon but trys to sell his opinion as being more rational and reasonable than those of others. I'm not denying that some folks express obviously irrational opinions. But I'm not so sure Sam Harris isn't one of them.
Or you disagree with his politics is really what it comes to. But yeah he got a philosophy degree then went on to go into neruscience, but when it comes to political realm folks get a different perspective about it.

For some reason it seems to be some big thing that becomes some bizarre character disregard and other people slam that always occurs with him. Idk why, is it because he's got a perceived notion of alleged authority by disliking people because the 4 horseman grouping. The same things were stated about Hitchens.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-03-2017, 01:40 PM
RE: Is Sam Harris a scientist?
(10-03-2017 01:10 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  I'd say it's using logic and evidence to come to well-supported conclusions.

When tackling theism, he is very good at this I feel. Anyone can take it on, as theism is inherently irrational. But some people are better at getting points across than others.

Of course, not everyone will agree on what is and isn't rational, and not many people would label themselves as irrational. That's why the scientific method is so important when studying the facts about reality. It attempts to remove all personal biases.

What I'm having an issue with is that scientific research isn't financed and funded freely. As far I as know how funding and financing of scientific projects function, especially in the USA, it's done by donors who have a particular interest in funding certain scientific projects but other projects get denied and rejected by the donors.

IOW, it's agenda driven how certain projects get funded and others not. And as long as that is the case, it can not be said that we have a free scientific community who are not controlled and regulated by how the funding and financing process currantely is working.

Also, there has been a lot of "studies" done by the german nazi scientists to prove that certain races have certain advantages and dis-advantages and those studies are now all seen as what they have been: The attempt to justify a disgusting theory of the superiourity of the caucasian (blond and blue eyed) race.

Furthermore: There have been experiements on the inmates of the german death-camps regarding controlling the human mind and the brain. By what is called operation paper-clip a lot of those doctors who conducted those experiement came to america via the so called rat-line via south america.

My point is: What is rational and reasonable highly depends on what kind of system the scientific and philosophical community is a part of.

And I never hear Sam Harris mention that. For me that means he either does not care to know what kind of system he is a part of, or he knows it and does not care or he finds himself on the "right" side of the system, benefits from it and does not care because he benefits.

And yes, I have researched so called conspiracy theories, obviously.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-03-2017, 02:00 PM
RE: Is Sam Harris a scientist?
Is there an argument he's made that you disagree with ?
Is there something he's said that you find irrational or without merit ?
Perhaps some factual error ?

Are you qualified to give your opinion about a fictional book or a fictional character in a book ?

Are you qualified to read and report about how people behave while under the influence of their religion ?

How qualified does one need to be to talk about how religious practices harm individuals and society as a whole ?

How qualified do I need to be in order for me to denounce the practice of marrying children, rape, murder (for the crime of being an atheist or gay), female genital mutilation, throwing the rape victim in jail if she reports the crime ?

His qualifications ?
He's a human being who cares about the welfare, health and happiness of others.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Rahn127's post
10-03-2017, 02:05 PM (This post was last modified: 10-03-2017 02:10 PM by abaris.)
RE: Is Sam Harris a scientist?
(10-03-2017 01:29 PM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  Two trained scientists (and many others), one of which is arguably the smartest man alive, have some concerns about AI.

Is this smartest man alive an expert in AI? A concept that only exists in theory by now?

I have a simple question. What does AI need to - at some point in the future - function as an AI?

The answer is casing, energy - lots of it - and processing power - lots of it. An independent AI couldn't provide what is necessary, unless we were to stand idly by while an AI forms an independent society. Complete with raw materials, production and supply lines.

Apart from any remotely possible future AI only being as smart and as advanced as we are. We have to create it with the hard- and software available at a certain point in time. It could be upgraded, I guess, but only as far as our scientific and technological knowledge advances.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like abaris's post
10-03-2017, 02:08 PM
RE: Is Sam Harris a scientist?
(10-03-2017 01:20 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  One thing I completely disagree with Harris on is his whole "moral landscape" thing, and the idea that science can tell us about morality. I think that's total garbage. Science can help us achieve our goals once we have decided what is and isn't morally desirable, but it can't set those goals for us.

That was a while ago though so I don't know if he's updated his stance on that.

Agreed, indeed. Morality is a topic that is in the field of philosophie and philosophie isn't a science in my book. How can the love of wisdom be science? It's an art.

Here's one thing I would like to hear Sam Harris talking more about: His trip storys.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-03-2017, 02:22 PM
RE: Is Sam Harris a scientist?
(10-03-2017 02:08 PM)Billanja Wrote:  
(10-03-2017 01:20 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  One thing I completely disagree with Harris on is his whole "moral landscape" thing, and the idea that science can tell us about morality. I think that's total garbage. Science can help us achieve our goals once we have decided what is and isn't morally desirable, but it can't set those goals for us.

That was a while ago though so I don't know if he's updated his stance on that.

Agreed, indeed. Morality is a topic that is in the field of philosophie and philosophie isn't a science in my book. How can the love of wisdom be science? It's an art.

Here's one thing I would like to hear Sam Harris talking more about: His trip storys.

Well science is apart of philosophy in my book.

Depending on what way you figure to define morality, in many philosophical notions of morality it is something that can be scientifically examined and especially so by our neuro biology because our brains form our moral precepts.

How can the love of wisdom be science... first of all its the STUDY but the love of wisdom can be science in a examination of the signs of love showing in the brain when thinking on wide scale ideas.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes ClydeLee's post
10-03-2017, 02:26 PM
RE: Is Sam Harris a scientist?
(10-03-2017 02:00 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  How qualified does one need to be to talk about how religious practices harm individuals and society as a whole ?

How qualified do I need to be in order for me to denounce the practice of marrying children, rape, murder (for the crime of being an atheist or gay), female genital mutilation, throwing the rape victim in jail if she reports the crime ?

His qualifications ?
He's a human being who cares about the welfare, health and happiness of others.

1.) At least someone who talks about religion should know why, how and what for people do engage in organized relgions. And the reason why is, in my eyes: They suffer. And don't know anything better than engaging in religion.

2.) Yes, I agree that these are utterly disgusting practizes and calling them out as being what they are is a good thing. But throwing the baby out with the bath-water, like I think is what Sam Harris is doing when denying almost all religions and all practizes, isn't benefical and does not even remotely adress the problem of human suffering. If that is what he is concerned about.

3.) I'm not buying it that he "cares about the welfare, health and happiness of others" as long as he does not adress what role the economical system plays and how it might be related to the religions, who teach and preach stuff like, "ora et labora". I'm not buying that Sam Harris is concerned about the happiness, well-being and health of ALL human beings. Because he just don't. At least his muslim and "liberal left" bashing stance does not indicate that.

And maybe he is just far less intelligent, informed and smart as many of his fans think he is.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-03-2017, 02:45 PM
RE: Is Sam Harris a scientist?
(10-03-2017 01:20 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  One thing I completely disagree with Harris on is his whole "moral landscape" thing, and the idea that science can tell us about morality. I think that's total garbage. Science can help us achieve our goals once we have decided what is and isn't morally desirable, but it can't set those goals for us.

That was a while ago though so I don't know if he's updated his stance on that.

That's not what I understood him to be saying. He was only saying that it's possible to evaluate options scientifically to determine what kind of affect they have on society and then use those results to guide moral choices. I don't think he proposed it as an ultimate answer but rather just to say that science is not isolated from moral decisions.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes unfogged's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: