Is Science Progress?
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21-12-2014, 09:42 AM
Is Science Progress?
It's indisputable that the fruits of science have brought very many improvements to human life over recent centuries.

But what if we wind up using the fruits of science to destroy civilization? If that happens, will science still fairly be labeled progress?

Suppose we have a couple of great centuries, and then somebody hits the nuclear button and it's all erased. What's would the verdict on science be in that case?

As example, suppose we buy a gun to protect our family. Ok, protection sounds good. But then our teenage child uses the gun to kill themselves. What the bottom line on guns for us now?

I agree that science is just a tool for developing knowledge, and is not good or bad in itself. The question seems to be, how much knowledge can we handle?
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21-12-2014, 09:48 AM (This post was last modified: 21-12-2014 09:59 AM by Peebothuhul.)
RE: Is Science Progress?
At work.

I do believe your analogy is simply bad.

It is not 'science' in any way, shape or form that you generaly talk about.

'Pushing the big red one'

Is something social and political.


Much cheers to all.

Edit: I just noticed some one else reply with almost the exact same sentiment to another thread/line of talking and I note how similar the two threads seem. Here's to hoping good things come about through both threads.
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21-12-2014, 10:00 AM
RE: Is Science Progress?
(21-12-2014 09:48 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  'Pushing the big red one' Is something social and political.

Um, without science, there would be no "big red one" to push. The social and political problems you point to would play out on a level with far smaller consequences.

Perhaps it will help to replace the word "science" with "knowledge development"?

To rephrase my title...

Is Knowledge Development Progress?

If we end civilization using the knowledge we've developed, is that progress?
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21-12-2014, 10:39 AM
RE: Is Science Progress?
Don't confuse the tool "Scientific method" with those who misuse the tool. Yes it can be abused. Most certainly in war, humans dream up all sorts of technology to murder other human beings. The oil industry for far too long justified led in gas with their own "scientists" and even now fracking, natural gas and big oil still try to co op science to justify polluting the planet. But that is not the tool itself, that is the idiot smashing someones brains in with the hammer.

Humans are the problem, not science itself.

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21-12-2014, 11:04 AM
RE: Is Science Progress?
(21-12-2014 10:39 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  Humans are the problem, not science itself..... But that is not the tool itself, that is the idiot smashing someones brains in with the hammer.

Right, agreed.

So should we give all we human idiots hammers that keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger? Isn't that what the process of knowledge development inevitably leads to?
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21-12-2014, 11:13 AM
RE: Is Science Progress?
At work.

The opening poster seems to be 'Leading the question'.

Again, science is a tool. It is an ever growing body of knowledge/Understanding.

The other questions and alegations are more in relation to people's level of education and understanding. Not with the 'Level' of current science.

Much cheers to all.
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21-12-2014, 11:23 AM
RE: Is Science Progress?
Science is not some ill-defined social metric generally labelled "progress". Depending on exactly what is "progressing" science is, at best, one of the motivating forces.

(21-12-2014 09:42 AM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  But what if we wind up using the fruits of science to destroy civilization? If that happens, will science still fairly be labeled progress?

The answer to your question was in the words "we use".

Quote:Suppose we have a couple of great centuries, and then somebody hits the nuclear button and it's all erased. What's would the verdict on science be in that case?

Was there a scientific reason for pushing that button? Was there a scientific reason for building a nuclear arsenal in the first place? Has science been trying to warn you for over half a century that this was a bad idea?

(21-12-2014 09:42 AM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  I agree that science is just a tool for developing knowledge, and is not good or bad in itself. The question seems to be, how much knowledge can we handle?

Well, there's you answer. Science isn't the problem. People are.

(21-12-2014 09:42 AM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  So should we give all we human idiots hammers that keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger?

You can try and stifle science but history has shown that that is typically done by the biggest human idiots so that they can have the smashiest hammers. Scientific arms race anybody? That won't end well.

Or you can try to make humans less stoopid.

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21-12-2014, 11:30 AM
RE: Is Science Progress?
(21-12-2014 11:13 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Again, science is a tool. It is an ever growing body of knowledge/Understanding.

Yes, we all agree on this. Any chance we can move on to ask where an "ever growing body of knowledge" is taking us?
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21-12-2014, 11:35 AM
RE: Is Science Progress?
At work

(21-12-2014 11:30 AM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  Yes, we all agree on this. Any chance we can move on to ask where an "ever growing body of knowledge" is taking us?

Science is not taking us anywhere. Time is the thing moving on.

Again, as posted in another thread, it is peole and their developed skill/education base to which perhaps you might be wording/asking about your questions?

Much cheers to all.
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21-12-2014, 11:39 AM
RE: Is Science Progress?
Quote:The answer to your question was in the words "we use".

Where is the evidence that we will not eventually use every weapon at our disposal, given that this has been the consistent routine pattern throughout all of human history?

Quote:Was there a scientific reason for pushing that button? Was there a scientific reason for building a nuclear arsenal in the first place? Has science been trying to warn you for over half a century that this was a bad idea?

Guys. If science is not your religion, there's no need to defend it as if it was.

Science is just a tool. We all agree on this. You don't need to remind us of that over and over again.

Machine guns are just a tool too. Should we hand them out to everybody on the street? Doesn't there come a point when too much of any tool becomes a bad idea? Why should the tool of science be any different???

Quote:Well, there's you answer. Science isn't the problem. People are.

People who keep repeating this point over and over and over again are the problem. :-)

Quote:You can try and stifle science but history has shown that that is typically done by the biggest human idiots so that they can have the smashiest hammers. Scientific arms race anybody? That won't end well.

Right agreed.

Quote:Or you can try to make humans less stoopid.

Aha, now we're getting somewhere, thanks.

Yes, doesn't it seem the tool of science should be focused on making humans less stoopid? Otherwise, what will be the point of all the other accomplishments, as they will likely all be swept away, right?
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