Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
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09-12-2014, 06:55 PM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
8 pages and I'm only addressing the op.

Blah blah blah suffering blah blah...

I don't mind a little suffering...
Angel

(ok, I'm going back to my holiday hell stuff).


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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09-12-2014, 07:20 PM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
God is a mental hemorrhoid. Itchy and irritating and hard to push back into its proper place in the asshole.

#sigh
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09-12-2014, 07:38 PM (This post was last modified: 09-12-2014 07:50 PM by DLJ.)
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(09-12-2014 02:01 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-12-2014 01:48 PM)DLJ Wrote:  There are objectively right and wrong answers... depending on the questions. But not right or wrong cultures, ethics or behaviours.

So these objectively wrong answers, may not be wrong for different cultures, ethics or behaviors?

"Hey, DLJ! Are you a fish?"
"Orange sheep"
"Nah, DLJ! Wrong answer"
"Only for a given epistemology"
"DLJ?"
"Yes?
"You're an idiot!" Dodgy"

(09-12-2014 02:08 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-12-2014 01:48 PM)DLJ Wrote:  So, you are saying that you are a Relativist?

No. I'm using a card from your play book, arguing from the position of a lack of belief. That I see no valid reason, proof, or evidence to accepts that benevolence of even a hypothetical god is negated by meaningless suffering.

Indeed. So it all hinges on how those terms are defined and agreed upon.

Good and bad are relative. What's good for one person / culture / time may be bad for another person / culture / time. It's all subjective.

It only becomes objective once an axiology (a scale) has been established.

Here's the scale:
very good .... good .... .... bad .... very bad
<—————————————————————>

Where would you put "benevolence' on this scale?
I'd put it on the left.

Where would you put god on this scale?
I've no fucking idea.
Whose god?

Wink

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09-12-2014, 08:36 PM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(09-12-2014 07:38 PM)DLJ Wrote:  It only becomes objective once an axiology (a scale) has been established.

That's got it. Thumbsup

(09-12-2014 07:38 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Indeed. So it all hinges on how those terms are defined and agreed upon. ....

That's my read.

#sigh
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09-12-2014, 08:49 PM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(09-12-2014 07:38 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Good and bad are relative. What's good for one person / culture / time may be bad for another person / culture / time. It's all subjective.

It only becomes objective once an axiology (a scale) has been established.

Here's the scale:
very good .... good .... .... bad .... very bad
<—————————————————————>

Okay it's no longer subjective once a scale has been established?

Does this apply to all subjective good and bad, or just when it comes to morality? Can the same be said of good and bad when it comes to music, fashion, female attractiveness?

Will this work the same when applied to music, i.e. good and bad music is relative. What's good music for one person/culture/time may be bad music for another person/culture time. It's all subjective.

It only becomes objective once a scale has been established.

Here's the scale

very good music .... good music.... .... bad music.... very bad music
<—————————————————————>

Would you say the jump from subjective to objective, is possible for music, or is only possible for when it comes to morality?

Quote:Where would you put "benevolence' on this scale?
I'd put it on the left.

I'd say it's just another way of saying good. i.e the scale would be:

very benevolent .... benevolent.... .... malevolent.... very malevolent


Quote:Where would you put god on this scale?
I've no fucking idea.
Whose god?

Wink
Thumbsup
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09-12-2014, 08:57 PM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(09-12-2014 05:40 PM)tear151 Wrote:  
(09-12-2014 05:31 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  So if this is in fact the case, then God wouldn't be a hypocrite, he would just be arrogant?


I did no such thing, since I don't recall every defining what I believe benevolence is here.

And arrogance is biblically frowned upon, if you say god doesnt have to follow his own objective system to omnibenevolentbthere arent many definitions left.


Well, the point being made is that God not having to abide by the same rules imposed on his creation, is not hypocritical, and I supplied several examples to show this. And I think you tacitly agree.

You may believe that a God who doesn't see himself as an equal to his creation is arrogant, but that's just your opinion, and likely indicates your distaste for authority more so than anything else.
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09-12-2014, 09:20 PM (This post was last modified: 09-12-2014 09:28 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(09-12-2014 08:57 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  You may believe that a God who doesn't see himself as an equal to his creation is arrogant, but that's just your opinion, and likely indicates your distaste for authority more so than anything else.

There is no god to do any of that crap, and you have never provided even one reason to believe in one or a coherent definition of what the three letter meme pronounced "gawd" even means. God isn't a "he". Does your gawd have circulating testosterone ?
Your spouting of the shit you were indoctrinated with with respect to non-belief is so pathetic.

What exactly do you think you're doing here, anyway ?
(Trying to make theists look stupid ?)

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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09-12-2014, 09:26 PM (This post was last modified: 09-12-2014 10:16 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(09-12-2014 08:57 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-12-2014 05:40 PM)tear151 Wrote:  And arrogance is biblically frowned upon, if you say god doesnt have to follow his own objective system to omnibenevolentbthere arent many definitions left.


Well, the point being made is that God not having to abide by the same rules imposed on his creation, is not hypocritical, and I supplied several examples to show this. And I think you tacitly agree.

You may believe that a God who doesn't see himself as an equal to his creation is arrogant, but that's just your opinion, and likely indicates your distaste for authority more so than anything else.

It might also indicate our distaste with the lack of logic and evidence, so there is that dumbass.

What is the sense of a perfect being making imperfect creations, then punishing us when we fall short of his impossible standards, stands which he himself apparently cannot comply with? Why create logic and then demand faith? Why continue to refuse to provide evidence in the face of incredulity? Why is god's plan so laughably bad a 7 year old can find holes in it? It's both idiocy and hypocrisy on a universal scale. I would expect better from an all-powerful creator of the universe.

Assuming of course that it's true, fortunately we have no good reason to believe any of it is.

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09-12-2014, 09:29 PM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(09-12-2014 08:57 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-12-2014 05:40 PM)tear151 Wrote:  And arrogance is biblically frowned upon, if you say god doesnt have to follow his own objective system to omnibenevolentbthere arent many definitions left.


Well, the point being made is that God not having to abide by the same rules imposed on his creation, is not hypocritical, and I supplied several examples to show this. And I think you tacitly agree.

You may believe that a God who doesn't see himself as an equal to his creation is arrogant, but that's just your opinion, and likely indicates your distaste for authority more so than anything else.

Not only did you not do that... but your analogies were SO AWFUL they weren't even accurate depictions of most states in the world.

But these aren't disagreements and many people do find concepts of these state enforced principals hypocritical... again the flaw you don't want to touch on again. There's the factor of God being Omnipotent and having infinite alternatives to accomplish his tasks, alternatives that to anyone experiencing the situation, could see are more or less benevolent.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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09-12-2014, 09:30 PM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(09-12-2014 09:20 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  What exactly do you think you're doing here, anyway ?
(Trying to make theists look stupid ?)

Mission accomplished I'd say... Drinking Beverage

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