Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
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10-12-2014, 05:57 AM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(09-12-2014 08:57 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-12-2014 05:40 PM)tear151 Wrote:  And arrogance is biblically frowned upon, if you say god doesnt have to follow his own objective system to omnibenevolentbthere arent many definitions left.


Well, the point being made is that God not having to abide by the same rules imposed on his creation, is not hypocritical, and I supplied several examples to show this. And I think you tacitly agree.

You may believe that a God who doesn't see himself as an equal to his creation is arrogant, but that's just your opinion, and likely indicates your distaste for authority more so than anything else.

You sure do waste a lot of words, I'll sum up your argument for you.


Who are we to question god? His ways are higher than our ways.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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10-12-2014, 07:22 AM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(10-12-2014 05:57 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Who are we to question god? His ways are higher than our ways.

No, not really.

It's just that there's no answer to why God allows suffering to exist in the world, not even from those who claim to speak from his own voice. Though the book of Job pressed the question, rejecting perspectives that saw suffering as a form of punishment, when God finally answers, he provides a non-answer.

As someone who believes what is moral or immoral, is based on intentions, and not consequences, without knowing or assuming a likely intent then we cannot pass moral judgement. It's intention that makes an act immoral and moral, benevolent, or malevolent. Without those intentions being known to us, then we can only lack a judgement for a particular thing.

Or in other words, on the question of if God is benevolent, or malevolent based on the existence of suffering, is one it which I lack a belief/judgement on.
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10-12-2014, 07:33 AM (This post was last modified: 10-12-2014 07:36 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(10-12-2014 07:22 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(10-12-2014 05:57 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Who are we to question god? His ways are higher than our ways.

No, not really.

It's just that there's no answer to why God allows suffering to exist in the world, not even from those who claim to speak from his own voice. Though the book of Job pressed the question, rejecting perspectives that saw suffering as a form of punishment, when God finally answers, he provides a non-answer.

As someone who believes what is moral or immoral, is based on intentions, and not consequences, without knowing or assuming a likely intent then we cannot pass moral judgement. It's intention that makes an act immoral and moral, benevolent, or malevolent. Without those intentions being known to us, then we can only lack a judgement for a particular thing.

Or in other words, on the question of if God is benevolent, or malevolent based on the existence of suffering, is one it which I lack a belief/judgement on.

A deity who has "intentions"
a. has to formulate those against a standard
b. exists in a temporal environment
c. if it can't just carry out what it wills, the entire business implies it's not omnipotent


SO. MUCH. FAIL.

It would be far better for you to just quote parts of "Horton Hears a Who".
That makes more sense, unfortunately, than you do.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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10-12-2014, 07:46 AM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(09-12-2014 09:20 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  What exactly do you think you're doing here, anyway ?
(Trying to make theists look stupid ?)

I don't know, enjoying the scenery.

What exactly do you think you're doing here?

You seem to be a bitter old man, dealing with some sort of life long resentment, and it appears you have developed an uncanny desire to latch on to me wherever I go, like a weird little love triangle.

I don't think I really mind it though, in fact I think I may have developed a fondness for you too. Perhaps I stick around for you, and for no other reason.

I can't seem to quit you.
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10-12-2014, 07:53 AM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(10-12-2014 07:22 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(10-12-2014 05:57 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Who are we to question god? His ways are higher than our ways.

No, not really.

It's just that there's no answer to why God allows suffering to exist in the world, not even from those who claim to speak from his own voice.

Because he doesn't exist. Dodgy

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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10-12-2014, 08:00 AM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(10-12-2014 07:53 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Because he doesn't exist. Dodgy

So you say....
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10-12-2014, 08:01 AM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(10-12-2014 07:46 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-12-2014 09:20 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  What exactly do you think you're doing here, anyway ?
(Trying to make theists look stupid ?)

I don't know, enjoying the scenery.

What exactly do you think you're doing here?

You seem to be a bitter old man, dealing with some sort of life long resentment, and it appears you have developed an uncanny desire to latch on to me wherever I go, like a weird little love triangle.

I don't think I really mind it though, in fact I think I may have developed a fondness for you too. Perhaps I stick around for you, and for no other reason.

I can't seem to quit you.

Ah yes .. the old "you're an angry atheist" schtick.
Boring.
Memories of Egor, accusing me of stalking him. Consider
This is a public board. Don't flatter yourself.
My mission is to seek out and expose idiocy, whatever the guise.

Psssst dear, a triangle involves THREE people, not two.
*pats Tomasia on his bald head*

Keep trying tho. Maybe someday you'll turn into someone who can actually *be* an apologist.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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10-12-2014, 08:11 AM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
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10-12-2014, 08:46 AM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(10-12-2014 07:46 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-12-2014 09:20 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  What exactly do you think you're doing here, anyway ?
(Trying to make theists look stupid ?)

I don't know, enjoying the scenery.

What exactly do you think you're doing here?

You seem to be a bitter old man

I'm a bitter old man. He's a young stud with a surfer dog. You lose.

Accepting as first principle Benevolence as God, contrasts quickly with experience. Since words are for men, our definition must take precedence.

living word
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10-12-2014, 09:13 AM
RE: Is Suffering Compatible With God's Existence?
(10-12-2014 08:46 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Accepting as first principle Benevolence as God, contrasts quickly with experience.

I don't think god's benevolence was ever accepted as first principle. And it appears to have been an attribute associated with him later, particularly by the writers of the New Testament, such as John's Gospel, that declares God is Love. I think the earlier writers of scripture would have likely had a hard time declaring such a statement.

In fact the christian concept of a God of Love, is derived from one particular thing, in the giving of his son, the light of the human race, that enlightens men. That the God that enlightens in such a way, brought them to new profound sense of life, can only be a God who loved them.
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